Sales Management That Works – Frank Cespedes

Frank Cespedes teaches at Harvard Business School. He has designed and delivered learning programs in areas such as innovation, talent and performance management, strategy, marketing, sales, leadership skills, and managing change. He has also consulted to companies in consumer goods, information technology, professional services, retailing, telecommunications, and financial services; and has been a Board member of start-up firms, corporations, private-equity companies, and the Education for Employment Foundation.

 

Frank has also written for numerous publications, but on today’s episode we’re talking about his most recent book, Sales Management That Works: How to Sell in a World That Never Stops Changing. One of his former students said this about the book, ‘It is structured logically, easy to read, and clear. It’s worthy of being a desk reference for any owner or senior executive looking to maximize their sales performance.”

 

Tune into today’s episode to learn about the extensive research Frank Cespedes has done in order to write his most recent book and pick up a copy if you would like to get expert insight on sales management that will work for you and your team!

 

 

Transcript:

Tue, May 10, 2022

SUMMARY KEYWORDS 
sales , people , hiring , selling , crm , companies , salespeople , business , book , buying , onboarding , sales managers , works , buyer , customer , data , firms , training , methodology , frank

SPEAKERS
Frank Cespedes & Christopher Smith

Intro
Welcome to the Sales Lead Dog podcast hosted by CRM technology and sales process expert Christopher Smith, talking with sales leaders that have separated themselves from the rest of the pack. Listen to find out how the best of the best achieve success with their team and CRM technology. And remember, unless you are the lead dog, the view never changes.

Christopher Smith
Welcome to sales lead dog. Today we have a special guest joining us for this episode. We have author, consultant, teacher, Frank Cespedes as on Frank, welcome to sales lead dog.

Frank Cespedes
Christopher, thank you very much for hosting me my pleasure to be here.

Christopher Smith
So let me tell everyone a little bit about you, Frank. Frank teaches at Harvard Business School for 12 years, he was managing partner at the Center for executive development. He’s consulted to numerous companies been on multiple boards. And he’s an author, a very prolific offer author, he’s written six books, and we’re here to talk about Frank’s latest book, sales management that works, how to sell in a world that never stops changing. Frank, this book, when I got it and started going through, it really surprised me because I expected a book that was about selling. But it’s really not a book about selling. Can you talk about that? And your idea or why you wrote this book?

Frank Cespedes
Yeah. Well, I mean, I think it is a book about selling in the sense that I think it’s a book that will help salespeople sell better, it will help sales managers allocate their resources more effectively. And to you know, as you know, having read the book, it should also help senior executives get better in touch with their sales models, which is a growing issue in companies throughout the world. But I basically had two motivations. In writing this book, Chris, the first one is essentially an intellectual professional motivation. Of all the functions in business sales is by far, the most context specific, selling software is different than selling capital goods, is different than selling professional services. Selling also differs depending upon where and to whom you’re selling. The reality is selling in the United States is different than selling in Latin America, or Asia, or Europe. And yet sales is that area in business where for some reason, people feel most comfortable making huge generalizations that are usually unsupported by any data whatsoever. Beyond what in academia, we call n equals one. When I sold for Oracle, this is what worked for me, I’m sure it’ll work for you, or, you know, investors when we invested in Pay Pal, that kind of thing. So, after 30 years of doing what I think is pretty good research. In this area, I wanted to write a book that tells people this is what research does, and does not telling you about this core business activity. And I also think this was my second motivation, I think it’s a good time for a book like that. There is no doubt, no doubt whatsoever, that the data revolution, which will continue throughout our lifetimes, it is affecting buying and selling. But again, my reading of what people say about that is they simply misunderstand the managerial implications. And I wanted to address that as well.

Christopher Smith
And that’s really what I meant in terms of this being a different kind of book about selling is, honestly when I read the title, I was thinking it was gonna be more about, you know, how to craft a good email or you know, things like that. That’s not at all what this book is about. It’s really, I think, much more important topics when it comes to selling. And the first one that you really dive into is hiring everyone I talked to in any industry. Hiring is the number one topic if asked what’s tough in your business right now. Can you talk about hiring and sales and what’s going on?

Frank Cespedes
Yeah, and let me begin by talking about the current state because you’re right, for various reasons we’re all familiar with. It is a seller’s market in virtually every industry, and especially for salespeople and what I tend to remind senior executives at companies I’m on the board on companies that I work with, I always quote one of the oldest aphorisms in business. Remember, you hire your problems. So even in a situation like this, you better know what you’re looking for or what you’re not looking for big because it will bite you, sooner or later. Now, the topic of hiring and sales is a is an important one. And it’s important to recognize at the outset that there have always been challenges in sales hiring, that simply don’t exist to the same extent in other functions. For example, if you want to hire an engineer, you can go to a school and it’s a little bit like walking into a food court. What are you interested in electrical engineering, chemical engineering, mechanical engineering, if you need to hire people in finance, or accounting, you can find people who majored in those subjects. The same is true and in fact, increasingly true for computer programmers coders. But the last time I looked, which was about almost four years ago, when I started writing this book, of the nearly 5000 colleges and universities in the United States, less than 300 even offer a sales course, let alone a sales program. So, this is an area of business, where most people start out knowing almost nothing about what they’re going to get paid for. Right. And that leads to the other important fact, companies already spend a ton on sales, training and development. They spend on average, about 20% more per capita, per person on sales training than they do in any other function. But the ROI in of sales training is notoriously disappointing, and for systemic reasons, by the way that that we can discuss. So, you know, sales, hiring has always been tough. It’s getting tougher. And ironically, the current situation may be good. Let me explain why. I’ll throw one more data point at our listeners, turnover in sales across industries, tends to vary between 20 to 30%. Annually, it goes up, when as today, it’s a seller’s market, people with talent have more options. It goes down when the economy’s in recession. But it’s 20 to 30% annually, on average. Now notice what that means that figure what it means is that for most companies, the equivalent of the entire sales force must be higher trade developed socialized every three to five years. In fact, and you know, this is in the book, if you look at the amount of money that companies spend annually. And I will remind our listeners annually means every year, if you look at the amount of money they spend annually on sales, hiring, training, development, etc, that number is often as big or bigger than their biggest capex projects. But it typically gets much less rigorous attention than buying software does. And again, one of the things that the current labor market situation may do and this would be good is forced companies to simply get more rigorous in this area of hiring. Oh, yeah,

Christopher Smith
It’s what the way you describe is exactly how I look at like Edelman, a tech firm. It’s easy for me to identify who I want to hire, on the technical side of things. My consulting stuff, when it comes to sales are no certifications, there’s no you know, major, like you’re saying that they majored in this in college or whatever. All I’m doing is looking at a resume. And these people are professional at selling, they’re gonna write a good resume, usually,

Frank Cespedes
well, they’re gonna they’re gonna do more than that you may find this, you may find this amusing. But trust me, it’s not just a story about Harvard MBAs where I teach in the MBA course that I put together. We do it hiring exercise, sales, hiring exercise, but it’s not theoretical. I you know, I’ve got I know lots of people I bring in salespeople from the Boston area, they have to hire two people they have to interview to hire two people, one for an inside sales position, the other for an enterprise sales rep. And at companies we’ve already discussed cases about so they know about the product, the buyers and so forth. They go through the exercise, then we debrief, and the first thing I always hear from MBAs is Wow, guess what? People who sell for a living are good at interview. No kidding Sherlock. That is probably the single most important lesson they learned from that exercise. And it’s an IT So it’s a lesson not just for 25-year-old MBAs, in my experience, I have found it’s an it’s a lesson for experienced executives as well. You’re not hiring that version of the person. You’re hiring their ability to do things. It’s about behavior.

Christopher Smith
Yes. Yeah. So, let’s talk about that component of it that I’ve talked to a lot of people across all my episodes here. And a lot of people have different philosophies around their onboarding of new sales resources, team members, what is your philosophy about like, what that first 90 days, six months a year should be? When you’re staffing your sales team? Yeah.

Frank Cespedes
Well, the first thing I would do is get back to what I said at the outset of our discussion, Chris, and that is sales is very context specific, be aware of these glittering generalizations, right? It is, it varies depending on what you’re selling, and to whom you’re selling. And the most important thing about selling is, it always has been the buyer who buys why, and how. And that’s what the task of onboarding is, the task of onboarding is to make sure that whoever it is, we’re bringing on board, whether they’re new or experienced, understands buying in our market with our product, at our price, there is no such thing as performance in the abstract. In business, that platonic ideal does not exist, there’s only performance in our company, with our product in our market with our prices. The second thing I would say is that a lot of companies, a lot of managers, when they think about the topic you’ve raised, in my experience, they posit a false trade off, they basically say I’m going to hire someone who’s experienced. Therefore I don’t need to spend a lot of time money and effort on training and onboarding, that is a false trade off. I’m sure you know, and many of our listeners have literally had the experience of hiring someone who was a star at Company X. And somehow when she gets to our company, she’s no longer a star. Now think about that, what happened, it’s not as though that person suddenly got stupid, or they lost their capabilities. Selling is very dependent not only on someone’s skills externally, with customers, but on the relationships, they develop internally, with others in their company, in product in service, fulfillment, and so forth. And the other task of onboarding is to accelerate the development of those relationships. And yet paradoxically, many executives and sales managers, in my opinion, have this silly attitude that says, well, you know, I bring people in, and you know, it’s a test, let’s see if they can figure it out. Well, look, I’ve run a business and out and I’m a professor, I know the difference between business and giving tests, that’s silly. The job of a manager is not to test people, the job is productivity, and maximizing time, to productivity. All of that is what onboarding is about, in my view.

Christopher Smith
It’s, I’ve actually talked to tight with a lot of entrepreneurs. And one of the common mistakes I hear them say is that I hired this person to solve my problems in sales. And they did nothing for me. I spent a lot of money and I got nothing out of it. And they did exactly what you said they would do you know, where they’re just, they’re hiring someone who’s really experienced, they should know what they’re doing. That’s not the case. You have to know everything you just said you have to understand their product, who they’re who their customers are, who their buyers, what’s their value, prop all that stuff. You have to know intimate it that takes time. You just can’t throw him in the deep end and say start swimming.

Frank Cespedes
That’s it. No, I and I agree. And you know, look, the I’ve been teaching entrepreneurial management since I got back to Harvard Business School almost a decade ago. And especially in the tech sector, which I know Christopher, you know, very well. It’s not as though those engineering tech founders have to be great salespeople. That is not the requirement. But they need to know about who their target buyers are in the buying process. And that to your point, I’m in violent agreement, you can’t delegate that. Right and that’s what many of them tried to do. Well, I don’t know you figure it out. Doesn’t work that way.

Christopher Smith
No, no, it doesn’t at all. And that’s a tough lesson. I think for a lot of executives. If they think they can outsource that thought process and there’s no shortcuts, there’s no silver bullets, you got to do the hard work and heavy lifting. The jumping ahead into and dive in a little bit deeper into some of the content, your book, I like to talk about the training and development side of things. If we could dive a little bit deeper in there. In there, you talk about sales training should be a process, not an event. Can you go a little deeper on that?

Frank Cespedes
Yeah, I mean, you know, if you know, getting back to the earlier comment, if you ask yourself why the ROI in sales training is, you know, frankly, disappointing for many companies. One reason is they treat it as an event. Usually, it’s tied to a new product introduction. We bring in our business development people, we bombard them with information at that point in time. And what the learning and development people call the forgetting curve is very, very steep in sales. I mean, this is this research has been replicated numerous times. But most people and especially salespeople, forget what they learned in a training seminar, about 80% of what they learned there, they forget within 60 days. Now, that’s a good example of short termism. Secondly, there’s an over reliance in sales training on the classroom, you know, and I say that as a professor, somebody, you know, who who does this. But against talking about selling, it’s not the same thing as selling. Selling is about behavior. It’s about context specific tasks, a very task-oriented activity. And again, what the l&d people call just in time learning is increasingly important. Now, this is an area where technology used appropriately can help a lot. But used appropriately means you have to understand the basics of adult learning, especially in sales, sales, people pay attention to information, when and where they need it, which is usually on their way to a sales call, or actually during the sales conversation itself. And there are more and more technologies that can help with that. The second thing is salespeople are not studying for the final exam in my course, for your course, or anyone else’s course. It’s about behaviors. And most salespeople learn the most from their peers, the best of their peers. It’s what again, the learning people call modeling, behavior sales is a classic example of this. They look at the best of their peers. And essentially, they learn, hey, the way you dealt with that price objection. Now that was clever, I’m gonna use it, the way you frame the value proposition. I hadn’t thought about it that way. And again, part of the role of training is to accelerate that process to accelerate the process of best practice pure learning. In the Salesforce.

Christopher Smith
Yep, I had a guest on a while back that his first job was selling encyclopedias door to door. And, you know, this is going to be about dating himself quite a bit, despite that saying that first job, right. But he learned an important lesson that he said, you know, Chris, the first true lesson I learned as sales is whenever I went off script, I didn’t get the sale. But if I stuck to the script, it worked. And I close business. And so, it gets back to you know, those people sellers that they did the research to figure out what is the messaging, what works. And if you follow that messaging, and you do it this way, you have a much better chance of succeeding. It seems like a lot of sales training today, it’s much more focused on almost kind of winging it, you know, build the relationship, but they’re not giving that kind of structure to their sales team. Do you agree with that, or maybe disagree with that? In some ways?

Frank Cespedes
I do. I think actually, the problem I see in some ways is the opposite covers. I think that as well as an over reliance on classroom training. I think there’s also an over reliance on in a given sales force, a particular sales methodology, whatever it is, now, sales methodologies are important. You know, you’re using the right word structure. All right. And we need a structure to scale. It helps with metrics. And you know, at the end of the day, any good the structure is in keeping with the way buying works in our market today, not yesterday, the problem I find whoever is in many companies are too rigid about this. And the reality in most samples. Jones, not all, but in most, and by most I mean about 80%. The methodology is good for many of those prospects and customers, but not all, what the theorists call adaptive selling is usually a very important part of sales success in most sales jobs. But notice that most sales training firms have a huge incentive to say that their methodology will work for your company, my company, their company on Mars, Jupiter, Venus, well, you know, buyer beware, it’s your job to understand what the tasks are and how you’re developing those people. And how to use methodologies intelligently, not in some rote manner.

Christopher Smith
No, you’re talking here in the training section about developing the fundamentals, three core areas that require training for most sales forces, being customer discovery interviews, structuring and conducting sales conversations and then closing the sale. What Why do you think people are maybe not spending enough time there? What, what what’s going on in the sales industry? Where we’re not? Maybe we’re blowing past? Is it too much of a reliance on experience?

Frank Cespedes
Well, no, I think that I think that the issue in sales, you know, it’s very important to understand, in any company in here, I want us to move up from sales. You know, at the end of the day, I ran a business, the executive programs I teach, they’re all CEOs. Their concern, quite rightly, is not are we selling their concerns? are we increasing enterprise value. So, notice the way sales works in the vast majority of companies, in most companies, so many other resource allocations throughout the firm in operations, service, marketing, etc, depend upon sales forecasts, and the sales forces ability to meet those forecasts. As a result, sales is typically under short term pressure, to, quote, make the numbers monthly, quarterly, annually, so forth, the metrics that are put in place and sales reinforce those short term metrics. And I think that’s why too, you know, and I think you phrase it Well, Chris, that’s why many sales managers in that situation, blow past the fundamentals. Why customer discovery? Well, at the end of the day, I get back to the reality, most important thing about sales is the buyer, every buyer is different. Right? They are because of their situation. customer discovery is understanding what are the relevant outcomes for that buyer? That’s an important test. And there aren’t things that are quite trainable in how salespeople ask questions, what they look for, etcetera. Framing the sales conversation. A good sales conversation is a very task-oriented activity. It is not simply a relationship building discussion. There’s systematic things you can do there. I talked about a number in the book. And then you know, the third topic is listening. You know, anything you’ve ever read about sales agenda, say listening is important. But listening is not the same thing as waiting to speak. Active listening is what’s relevant in sales. And again, that can be trained.

Christopher Smith
Oh, yeah. 100% agree. The next arrow might jump ahead a little bit and jump to compensation and incentives. What do you think people are doing right when it comes to compensation such as a what are people doing wrong?

Frank Cespedes
Yeah. Well, I mean, I think the first thing that I would say is someone who tells you that a constant set of plan doesn’t have an impact on behavior, in my opinion, is living in Disney World. Right. And by the way, I have certain colleagues in academia who believe that they will tell you it’s all about so called intrinsic rewards, not extrinsic rewards. Well, all I can say is that’s not the world I’ve lived in for, you know, over a half century. That said, however, in sales in particular, you’ve got to think of got the right competence sentence as a necessary but not sufficient cause of getting the behaviors you want. If at the end of the day, your people don’t have the relevant product knowledge, or at the end of the day, if they can’t close, it doesn’t matter how you pay them. So again, the incentives count, but they’re a necessary but not sufficient cause. Now, if you look at sales comp plans around the world, the figure I’m about to cite, Chris has been remarkably consistent within a few percentage points for decades, about 70% of sales comp plans, the incentive component of the comp plan is based simply on sales volume, and of story, end of paragraph and of sentence, it is not based on the profitability of the sale, or on the cost to serve that customer. Now notice what the message is in a Complan like that, to the sales force, the message is ultimately go forth and multiply. There is no such thing as a bad customer. But there are such things as bad customers, because when sales brings in a customer, especially in b2b businesses, that sets off a domino effect throughout the rest of the enterprise. So, you know, this is an issue for many firms. And it’s an issue at the end of the day, that makes it difficult for them to link their business development initiatives and investments with their business strategy. Comp counts. But let’s make sure that the incentives focus on the things that are going to increase enterprise value, not simply top line motion, independent of return on capital, profitability, etc.

Christopher Smith
Oh, yeah, cause all you’re doing in that model is you’re passing the buck to operations or someone else that, hey, you figured out how to make this profitable I sold?

Frank Cespedes
Precisely, by the way, this is an area more companies are beginning to recognize, this gets back to our first set of comments about the book, the date, one of the things that data revolution is doing is making sales much more transparent in many companies. And if you look, actually, tech firms are a good example, SAS firms, you know, you know, sales ops and SAS firms, they’re the data gurus, more than half of those groups do not report up to the Chief Revenue Officer, they report up through finance. And I’m sure you’ve noticed, Chris, finance, people are annoying, very annoying people. Once they get data, they start to ask questions. Well, how do you allocate all this money? What is your cost to serve, etcetera? The requirements for financial literacy and sales are increasing dramatically. I always get questions from salespeople and sales managers. What should I study next? And my response to them is you don’t need another selling methodology course, you’ve got to make sure that you’re proficient in finance, because that’s how the arguments are conducted their math language?

Christopher Smith
Oh, yeah, it’s you. My first company I had years ago, we consulted in healthcare, in working with surgeons and hospitals, trying to take unprofitable service lines, and make them at least break even if not turn a profit. And a large part of that with just educating physicians about the drugs that they’re using the components, they’re using the surgery, whatever, to help them, educate them, what that cost, all those choices they’re making, what’s the cost behind that they had no idea that because the hospital is not taking the time to educate them, but once we were able to educate them, they were able to make appropriate decisions to say, hey, there’s another drug out here, that’s just as effective, just as appropriate. But it’s 1/10 of the cost of the one I’ve been using.

Frank Cespedes
It’s a very good analogy. And what I’m saying is that’s the way finance looks at sales. But notice, that’s a dialogue that has to be a two way. Exactly. finance people have to know something about sales models, and many of them do this right.

Christopher Smith
And, you know, it’s not just about the bottom-line number, you know, that it’s you have to give people some help to be effective. And so yeah, that’s fantastic. How do you design a fair compensation plan?

Frank Cespedes
Well, again, there’s no one way. All right. Good. Sales is very, very context specific. But at the end of the day, I think the questions you ask are you not about the numbers, the numbers are an output of whatever your answers are to these questions. A, what are the important sales tasks? In our sales model? Is it about lead generation? Is it about something else? And B, where do our salespeople make a difference, as opposed to marketing, or service, or product? And it’s on that difference that you want to focus? And if you can answer those questions, the numbers are just a random walk. Right, then I think the next principle is the selling cycle. You know, the basic principle I think of effective compensation, whether it’s about salespeople, or CEOs, you know, I’ve been on comp committees on boards, the, the connection between results and rewards has to be clear. And in sales, that means doing your best to tie it to the selling cycle, I sell more, I make more, I sell less, I don’t make as much. So those are the areas that where you begin, then I think the issue is how much is going to be fixed salary, how much is going to be incentive. And there I think there’s usually good data available in most industries, about how it’s working at other companies in the industry. So usually have a range. That part I, in my experience, and I’ve got a lot of experience in this area, that part I find is relatively easy. The key things are the questions up front, what are the tasks? Where do our people make a difference?

Christopher Smith
That’s great. Let’s talk a little bit something that I’m very passionate about CRM, based on your experience when you were running your company CRM, did you love it? Or did you hate it?

Frank Cespedes
Yeah, well, I mean, look, my opinion is only one person’s opinion. But I’m sure you’ve run into this. CRM is not exactly the most popular topic among businesspeople in general sales in particular. But why is that the problem is not the software. The problem as with any tech tool, in how it’s used, any tool is only as good as the user. And the issues with CRM, I think are the following one is a sales management issue. Most the output of most CRM systems is an aggregate number, a set of aggregate numbers based on very diverse inputs, right? One salesperson says a qualified lead is anybody who called me up. And the other person says no, a qualified lead is somebody I spoke to that has a budget, et cetera. The CRM system is the game the problem is not the software. The problem is how it is used. That’s comment. Number one, come in number two, is, again a managerial issue, not a technology issue. Buying in most industries, this again, is what my book is about. But buying in most industries has already changed dramatically. In both b2c and b2b businesses in most categories. The prospect is online and offline at multiple times during their buying journey, dealing with influencers, dealing with buying forums, in b2b markets, et cetera. And the CRM system is usually set up in terms of quote, a linear funnel or pipeline. That’s not the way buying works. Now, that doesn’t mean the CRM system is irrelevant or unimportant, quite the opposite. In an omni channel, buying world you need data more than ever. But as always, you need to put that data in context. And that’s something that human beings do something that sales managers do. So, my basic comment about CRM is a it’s amazingly unpopular, but it’s unpopular, because managers often don’t manage. You know, Peter Drucker wrote a wonderful article basically about this over 60 years ago. And the title of the article is wonderful. It’s called the manager and the moron. And the moron is the computer and Drucker’s point is that the computer is a moron. And that’s good, because it forces us to set the specs. It forces us to ask the questions. I think CRM is a classic example of that.

Christopher Smith
I couldn’t agree more. It’s amazes me when like, someone will reached out to say, hey, we need help with our CRM. And I started asking why and understand what’s going on. More often than not, they’re calling us because hey, we’re having these problems. And we need a new CRM to fix these problems. It’s about people in process. Exactly. And I just explained, look, there’s not a CRM out there that fix bad process, or bad data doesn’t, doesn’t exist. And unless you’re addressing those core issues, doesn’t matter what technology platform you have, you’re still you’re not going to be any better off and it’s about people. It’s about process. CRM is a tool. And I loved when you said earlier, it’s a tool. It’s exactly what it is. And I think hamburgers, you want to pound nails a hammer on its own, can’t do a thing to help you, you know.

Frank Cespedes
a bigger issue, and I’m sure you’ve seen this. But you know, what, what’s the current buzzword right now, digital transformation, you get us through that? Unless you can specify you’re exactly right. Data, a tool has never been the answer to a management issue. But that doesn’t mean the data and tools are irrelevant. Quite the opposite. They’re vital, but managers must manage. And again, that’s usually about people in process.

Christopher Smith
Yep. Yeah, I’d love to just drop the word digital off there and just focus on transformation. Because that’s what people want. That’s what they need help with is like, we have these problems, we want to solve them. And through that we want to transform our business and add more value to our customers. That’s

Frank Cespedes
great. But you know, Chris, again, you know, once upon a time I had a full head of hair. This these are part of the waves in business, you know, you may or may not be old enough to remember reengineering and others. Look through all these buzzwords come and go. Every generation has to learn these lessons. So that’s what I’ve discovered over the years.

Christopher Smith
Yep. 100%. Agree. Frank, we’re coming up on our time here and sales lead dog, it has been an absolutely fascinating conversation listening to you, I really appreciate it to come on sales lead dog. The book is and I want to make sure I get this 100% sales management that works, how to sell in a world that never stops changing. We can get it on Amazon. Where else can we get this book?

Frank Cespedes
Right? Well, you can get it directly from the publisher with volume discounts for your sales force. That’s Harvard Business Review Press. And I believe as well there’s a link to both Amazon in the press on my website, Frank assessment is.com. All of those standard places to get the book. Thanks so much for that plug.

Christopher Smith
I will have links to all that in our show notes. So be sure to check that out. Frank again, thanks for coming on sales lead dog and welcome to the pack.

Frank Cespedes
Well, thank you and I’ll say goodbye to you and our listeners the way a guest executive didn’t one of my courses last year, I thought it was great. You said to the students now remember, stay positive, test negative.

Outro
As we end this discussion on Sales Lead Dog, be sure to subscribe to catch all our episodes on social media. Follow us on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. Watch the videos on YouTube and you can also find our episodes on our website at empellercrm.com/salesleaddog. Sales Lead Dog is supported by Empellor CRM, delivering objectively better CRM for business guaranteed.

 

Quotes

Links

Frank Cespedes Linkedin
Harvard Business School LinkedIn
Frank’s Book on Amazon

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Empellor CRM Website
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