0:01
Welcome to the Sales Lead Dog podcast hosted by CRM technology and sales process expert Christopher Smith.
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Talking with sales leaders that have separated themselves from the rest of the pack.
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Listen to find out how the best of the best achieved success with their team and CRM technology.
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And remember, unless you were the lead dog, the view never changes.
0:27
Welcome to sales lead dog.
0:29
Joining me today is Rob Israel.
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Rob, welcome to sales lead dog.
0:33
So glad to be here.
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Very excited about today.
0:36
This awesome.
0:37
Rob, when you look back over your career, you’ve done quite a bit in your career, some different things.
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What are the three things that you could boil it down to that have really driven and LED to your success?
0:48
There, there, there.
0:50
There’s a few, You know, when I started off in the Navy, I remember my, you know, my chief Harry Goodman, you know, I, I had a pretty big eagle back then.
1:00
And he pushed me up against the wall one day and I said, Rob, you’re really good at what you do, but you got to support the people around you and you got to take into account what their needs are.
1:10
And, and that, that was probably my first real big learning point of, you know, whether you’re a manager, whether you’re on a team, you got to take care of the people around you.
1:19
You got to surround yourself with people that are smarter than you.
1:22
If you’re not surrounding people with that are smarter than you, you’re just going to get yeses or you’re not going to get the right information.
1:29
You know, another one is, you know, my, one of my former bosses, the CEO of John C Lincoln Healthcare when I was a CIO and AC.
1:35
So Dan Coleman, incredible leader and and his thought was get input from everybody, set the direction, tell them what you want to do, solicit their input, pull in their input.
1:48
But when you make a decision, everyone’s got to move in the same direction.
1:52
You know whether you’re taking, you know whether parts of their advice are taken or discarded, you still got to move in the same direction and explain why.
1:59
And I think probably the third one is champion your people.
2:04
There are so many managers out there.
2:06
I’ve worked for some great managers and some really bad managers.
2:09
The really bad managers were interested in advancing their careers and kind of using the resources they had at their disposal.
2:17
The really great ones that I would go to work for again today, tomorrow, next year were the ones that always put their people first.
2:25
It’s you should be able to develop your people so that you almost become irrelevant and and they can step into your shoes any day of the week.
2:34
But yeah, develop your people and give them the leeway and the opportunities to advance and grow and surpass you.
2:41
Yeah.
2:42
You know, I, that reminds me of someone that I really admire her.
2:47
She set the personal goal that three years from now, I’m stepping away for one year to travel the world with my husband.
2:57
And so she started putting everything she needed in place to elevate all her people so she could step away from her business.
3:04
She had a very successful, still does.
3:06
It’s still chunking along, very successful business, but she started elevating all of her people and giving up her responsibilities, you know, making people, you know, own things, be accountable for things and create that structure within the business.
3:21
And then had a holiday party right before the end of the year where she basically said goodbye to everybody and said, I’m tapping out for a year.
3:30
She did a monthly phone call with the leadership team for one hour just to check in, answer any questions or provide feedback.
3:37
But that was the level of involvement she had in that year were 12 phone calls.
3:42
Her group, her business, grew 40% that year.
3:44
That’s over.
3:45
I mean, when you empower your people, they want to do better.
3:48
They want your organization to do better.
3:50
They’re going to, they’re going to work that 50-60 hour a week to make sure they’re successful and you’re successful because you’ve empowered them.
3:57
Oh yeah, yeah.
3:58
That to me is a true leader that they’ve they’ve done such a good job of building their team.
4:03
They can literally step away for a year.
4:05
Yeah, that’s that’s and it just keeps moving along.
4:08
Yeah, that’s true.
4:09
Yeah.
4:09
She’s an amazing person.
4:12
What’s the back story?
4:13
Because you really have, I would say it’s a non traditional sales, but you’ve really had you’ve had very high leadership roles in organizations.
4:23
Now you’re in sales.
4:24
What’s the back story behind that?
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Rob?
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It, it, it was a crazy pathway to get here.
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But you know, I, I was in the Navy for, for six years after not knowing what I wanted to do.
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I took computers in the Navy, which you know, that that made me grow up a lot.
4:38
But you know, I, you know, I, I achieved the pinnacle.
4:41
I was, I was a chief information officer and a chief information security officer for a great healthcare system down here in Phoenix, AZ.
4:49
And I did that for about 10 years.
4:52
And one day, one of my sellers, he worked for EMC at the time, Dwayne Hester, great guy, incredible salesperson, someone that I actually emulated my career after a little bit, you know, he came to me.
5:04
He’s like Rob, He’s like, I don’t know if you’d be interested in this, but EMCS starting this new thing, it’s around V block.
5:10
It’s a combination of EMC, Cisco and VM Ware.
5:13
He’s like, you know, I think you’d be pretty good at it.
5:16
And you kind of seem a little bit bored.
5:18
And, and he kind of, you know, made me reflect and I was like, you know, I am a little bit bored.
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I’ve done everything I think I can do for this organization.
5:25
Yeah, You know, I implemented an EMRI, did redundancy.
5:28
I put the first firewall into the hospital system.
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And I was like, you know what, like my dad was a car salesman, He was an insurance salesman.
5:36
You know, he was really good at it, really successful, had a loyal fanbase, so to speak.
5:40
I was like, you know what, let me give it a shot.
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And so, you know, I, I joined EMC as what was known at the time as AV specialist, and it was a lot of fun.
5:51
I got to, you know, meet with a lot of customers and bring my expertise and my battle scars from being ACII want to see so to them and explain the benefits of this, this new technology that was out there.
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And I remember my, my very first presentation, I spent days putting this beautiful PowerPoint together.
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It, it was gorgeous, lots of graphics, lots of everything.
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And I got up to the EBC in Northern California for EMC and, you know, I started presenting and you know, 5 minutes into it, I looked around the room and everyone’s head’s down on their laptops around their Blackberries.
6:24
I’m dating myself Blackberries.
6:26
But I stopped and I paused and I said, what?
6:29
Why aren’t they listening to my great presentation?
6:32
And then I thought about it and I was like, you know what?
6:34
I would have walked out of the room if I was still the CIO.
6:36
I’m reading them slides.
6:38
I shut my laptop down and I, I apologize for the room.
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And I said, guys, This is why I think this topic’s important.
6:47
And heads lifted up and we actually started having a one-on-one conversation, Well, one on 10 conversation about what their needs and what their problems were.
6:56
And you know, I learned a very important thing.
6:58
And I, I knew this is a CIO, but it was something really hard as a seller to ask a question.
7:04
And I’m, I’m going to be polite about this.
7:05
There’s a different word I normally use, but shut the heck up and let them talk to you.
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And so I think that was kind of like what really kind of enamored me to it.
7:16
I got to meet with people, not just in healthcare, though I always get pulled back into healthcare because of my background, but I got to meet people from American Express, from PetSmart, from construction companies, and everyone’s problems were the same.
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And, and what I really learned is, you know, even though it’s a different industry, everybody has the same problems, whether it’s a network problem, a storage problem, a security problem, they’re all the same.
7:38
They might have different regulations.
7:40
And I started to just kind of really enjoy being able to ask that question and once again, shut the heck up and let people talk.
7:48
And that’s kind of what my dad taught me, You know, when he was a car salesman, when he was an insurance salesman, you know, people would come on the car a lot because I’d go there when I was a kid and I’d watch him and, and, you know, he wouldn’t be like just try to sell the car that was on the lot.
8:01
He would ask the question, what are you trying to do with the car?
8:04
Fine, you go to work Monday through Friday, but what do you do on the weekends?
8:09
And then he would try to help fill that need.
8:11
So I think that’s what got me into sales.
8:13
And I’ve I’ve, you know, progressed by, you know, bringing other people on board.
8:19
You know, I had a lot of inside sales reps when I was at IBM.
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I would bring my inside sellers with me to client meetings and let them pitch.
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And then I would, you know, kind of talk to them afterwards.
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What do you think went well?
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What do you think went wrong?
8:30
What could you have done better?
8:32
And many of those outside sellers, you know, Chris Burns, Allie Wilson, they’re incredibly successful sellers today.
8:39
Yeah, that’s amazing that it it’s I say that because that’s something I’d love to educate people.
8:47
I and I in another life, I must have been a teacher because I truly love to teach and educate and and help people gain clarity around whatever.
8:56
But educators talk a lot sellers, good sellers, don’t they?
9:00
They do what what you do and so that’s one of my biggest struggles is to ask the questions and shut the heck up.
9:08
Shut the heck up.
9:09
Yep, Yep, shut the heck up.
9:12
Hey, we’re taking a quick break to thank you for listening to and supporting the Sales Lead Dog podcast.
9:18
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9:21
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9:23
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10:26
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10:35
OK, let’s get back to this episode of the Sales Lead Dog podcast.
10:40
Was that a difficult transition for you, you know, beyond that meaning to continue developing as a seller?
10:47
Or is that something that you’ve just been able to do given the depth of experience you have in the other roles?
10:53
That’s, that’s a great question.
10:54
I think, you know, I think it just kind of came naturally.
10:57
Once I had that aha moment, it’s I went back and, you know, I thought about it especially, you know, after that EBC and I was like, who were the sellers?
11:06
I would take their phone calls that I would do a favor for if I’m going to buy it next quarter and they’re like, can you help me out this quarter?
11:12
And I would sign the PO.
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So I think I kind of really started ingesting what sellers were successful to me when I was a client and started emulating them.
11:23
And it was that, you know, it was they asked the question.
11:25
It’s openly admitting, you know what, I don’t have the right product for you, but this person does.
11:32
And, and even more importantly, and I actually just had this conversation with some new sellers, you’re gonna get asked a question that you don’t know the answer to.
11:42
It’s it’s gonna happen.
11:43
It, it happens to me probably once or twice a day.
11:46
And the sellers that try to bluff their way through it, you know, the people we’re selling to are smart.
11:53
They’re educated people.
11:54
They’ve been in this field for a long time.
11:56
If you try to lie to them or bluff, bluff them, they’re going to.
11:59
You might get away once, you might get away twice, but they’re going to figure it out.
12:02
It’s so much more important.
12:04
And I’ve instilled this on everyone I’ve worked with.
12:08
There’s nothing wrong with saying, you know what I don’t know.
12:10
That’s a great question.
12:11
No one’s asked me that before.
12:15
But the important thing after that is I’m going to get you the answer.
12:20
That’s key.
12:21
Yeah.
12:21
That’s what I tell my people all the time.
12:23
Like, don’t you don’t know, be honest.
12:27
Tell him, look, I’m not sure, but I’m going to get, I know someone who probably does have that answer.
12:32
I will get you the answer.
12:34
That’s all people want.
12:35
They just want, they don’t care how you get to the answer.
12:37
They just want the answer.
12:38
They want help.
12:39
You know, they’re saying help me.
12:41
I had a CIO of a very large healthcare organization.
12:44
We’re very good friends.
12:45
I’ve been, you know, I’ve known him for over 10 years and he called me one day because their, their network got hit with a, with a virus and his counterpart said, Oh, you know, we’re protected because we did this level of patching.
12:57
And he caught me up.
12:58
He’s like, is, is that true?
12:59
And I was like, I don’t think so.
13:02
But let me go get you the answer.
13:04
And I was driving from California to Arizona.
13:06
So I was kept going in and out on the 40, but I called him back half an hour later and I, I got a hold of one of the IBM top people.
13:12
And I said, is this possible?
13:14
He’s like, absolutely not.
13:15
It’s not possible.
13:16
They’re at risk.
13:18
And I called back and he’s like, thank you for getting me the answer and not just telling me what I wanted to hear.
13:23
Yeah.
13:23
Oh, yeah.
13:24
No, because that’s that’s why they’re reaching out.
13:26
I trust you.
13:27
Yeah.
13:28
To help me.
13:30
And you can’t betray that trust.
13:31
Yeah.
13:32
That’s the most empowering thing as a seller.
13:34
Oh, yeah.
13:34
When they say I trust you, I had a CISO for one of my sellers.
13:40
He’s like, she’s not my seller.
13:43
She’s a member of my team.
13:46
And I actually like got choked up and I was like, wow, that is such a powerful statement.
13:51
Yeah.
13:51
No, it really is.
13:52
That’s, you know, we we hear it all the time.
13:55
You have to strive to be that trusted advisor that is the Holy Grail.
14:00
And because they’re not always going to give you every sale, but at least they’re thinking of you first.
14:05
They’re thinking of you first.
14:06
Yeah.
14:07
And that’s, that’s what you want.
14:08
That’s all you can ask for because you still have to deliver.
14:10
Even if they’re thinking of you first and give it, you still have to deliver.
14:13
And if you can’t, you have to own that and say, hey, look, we’re just this, we’re not a right fit for this, You know, that that’s all they want to hear about.
14:21
Yeah.
14:21
And and what’s what’s also important is just because you said that is when you make that sale as a seller.
14:26
And I think this is another thing that’s made me successful.
14:28
And once again, something I emulated, you know, both for my father, ’cause he he would sell a car.
14:32
A year later, he called, he called the person and be like, how’s the car doing?
14:37
Stay with the sale just because you made the sale.
14:40
Stay with the deployment.
14:41
Make sure they’re still using it.
14:42
Make sure they’re getting what they want because I can promise it’s going to make a cup of coffee every day.
14:46
And the engineers are like, what the heck did he say?
14:49
So, you know, stay with the sales, stay with the deployment, and make sure you’re not just selling for today.
14:54
Sell for six months, sell for 12 months, sell for 36 months.
14:57
What are you going to do with the product after it’s deployed?
14:59
How do we get to that next level?
15:02
But again, that brings up that trusted advisor.
15:04
I’m not just trying to sell you what’s on the truck.
15:07
I’m trying to make you successful.
15:08
Yep, Yep.
15:11
So it’s very clear to me you’ve, you’ve developed some very strong leadership tenants and it’s really focused on your team, but developing your team, building your team.
15:22
What advice do you have for a young, you know, someone’s maybe considering leads transition into leadership or they’re in their first leadership role and they’re figuring out, hey, this isn’t as easy as I thought it was going to be.
15:35
What advice do you have for them?
15:37
Run, run away.
15:40
Seriously, it’s use your network.
15:43
Don’t be afraid to ask for guidance or advice.
15:47
I mean, managing a team is is hard.
15:49
It’s a lot of hard work because you’re dealing with different personalities and different motivators.
15:53
Does you know person A?
15:54
Are they motivated by money?
15:55
Is person B motivated by advancement?
15:57
Is person C motivated?
15:59
Motivated by training?
16:00
So, you know, have those one-on-one conversations with your team, but don’t make it about the numbers, what’s working for you, what’s not working for you?
16:08
What can I as a manager do better to support you?
16:13
It’s really taking into consideration, you know, you’re, you’re, it goes back to you’re dealing with different emotions, different feelings, you know, every day and every person you speak to is going to have a different problem ratio.
16:24
So, but they’re not unique and you can go to your network, you can go to other, you know, people that are your mentors.
16:32
You can go, don’t be afraid to go up, up the chain to your boss and be like, I’m having this problem.
16:37
What do you think?
16:38
But more importantly, and I think this is important to tell your people as well As for you to know, never go to somebody with, I have this problem, come to them with I have this problem.
16:50
And this is how I think I’m going to approach it.
16:53
And that’s for a manager, that’s for a seller, that’s for anyone.
16:56
Because if you come to me with, I have this problem, the first question, I’m going to be like, what did you try to do to solve it?
17:01
And then the second thing is, OK, this is how you’re going to solve it.
17:04
And I’m going to tell you what to do.
17:05
And it might not be what you want to do.
17:07
Oh, yeah, yeah.
17:08
Now, I learned that lesson early on where I, I’ve talked about this a lot in the show where I thought I had to be the smartest person in the room as a leader and I had to have all the answers to every question.
17:17
And then I realized one day I’m a giant bottleneck.
17:21
My team is using me as a crutch.
17:23
And so I just said, look, I want to hear about your problems, but you have to bring me what you think the solution should be as well.
17:30
Don’t just come in to me and say, hey, this isn’t working and expect me to wave a magic wand to fix it.
17:36
You have to come to me with both.
17:37
That’s our deal moving forward, you know, and because I needed I, I was really, I was holding my team back.
17:43
I was not developing them.
17:44
I was breaking that covenant of a leader of developing my team, you know, and giving them the ability and powering them to use the talents, what’s between their two ears, you know, to, to, to grow and learn and, and maybe fall on your face a bit, but that’s OK.
18:00
And I’m not going to beat you up.
18:01
We’re going to try something because that’s the one thing I, I also, I was not being totally vulnerable and honest with my team saying half the time you come with, I have no freaking idea how to solve it, but I’m willing.
18:11
Let’s take a guess.
18:12
Let’s try this and see if it works, you know, And, and once I started doing that with them, they were just like, oh, oh, that makes me feel better.
18:21
I thought I was the only one who didn’t have a clue, you know?
18:24
And it’s like, no, the only difference between me and you is I’m willing to say let’s try this.
18:28
Exactly.
18:29
And and we’ll see if it works, you know?
18:32
And so we’ll try it.
18:33
If it doesn’t work, we’ll try something else, you know, and it’s OK.
18:37
Even when you do know the answer, you you need to hold that back.
18:41
Yeah.
18:41
And that was something hard when I when I became ACEO, it was really hard for me.
18:46
It was another learning experience to not just tell them the answer.
18:49
I was like, God, I know, I know how to do this.
18:51
I know how to fix it.
18:52
And, and one of my directors, TomTom Heniger, he can’t even one day, he’s like, Rob, you need to **** out.
18:59
He’s like, you need to let us run our teams and, and please stop going in the server room because you freak us all out when you do.
19:05
So.
19:06
It was, it was it was another learning experience.
19:08
Sometimes you know the answer, but sometimes you got to let your people come to that answer or bring you an alternative.
19:12
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.
19:15
And and that, that was a hard one for me to learn, but I’ve obviously I’ve never forgotten that.
19:20
And it it it’s I think it’s just been a benefit all the way around ever, you know, every team I’ve had.
19:28
What’s the hardest part of being a leader for you?
19:31
What’s the hardest element to leadership that’s really, really tough for you?
19:34
That’s, that’s a great question.
19:43
You know, part, part of it is what we just talked about is, is, is knowing when to step back and, and, and, and having that ability to step back and, and not dictate your, your mandates on people.
19:54
But probably the, you know, another hard part, you know, and and this comes from, from, from the sales thing is knowing when to push back on your leadership.
20:09
To, you know, A to protect yourself, but two, to be, you know, truthful to yourself, your team and your customers.
20:16
You know, I have worked for, you know, managers that are like, put it in commit, put the deal in commit.
20:21
I was like, it’s not ready to be in commit.
20:23
We don’t know where the budget’s at.
20:24
We don’t know the signing process yet.
20:25
And they’re like, well, no, you have to put it in commit because the numbers are bad.
20:29
And I think, you know, part and you know, they’re like, just go to your team and tell them to move it into commit.
20:33
And I think the hard part, you know, as as a leader is defending your team against that and pushing back and knowing how to push back and, and making sure that you’re doing the right thing, even though there’s a lot of pressure on you sometimes to do what’s, you know, what the company wants as opposed to what’s right and what’s truthful.
20:52
Because, you know, I put $100,000 deal in commit and it doesn’t come through.
20:56
They’re they’re going to blame me, they’re going to blame the seller.
21:01
I think that’s, that’s a tough part of the leadership role that is, that’s super tough.
21:05
And that’s something that I’ve always struggled with, you know, doing what I do.
21:09
And I talked to a lot of sales people that about issues like that.
21:14
And one of the things that I’ve always tried to educate people on is that, look, you need to understand that forecasting is not just for the sales to see how they’re doing.
21:24
The business is making decisions based upon the forecast.
21:28
There’s a lot of downstream stuff going on because of the forecast.
21:32
And if you’re committing to stuff before it’s real, it could really put the business at jeopardy, you know?
21:39
And Oh yeah.
21:41
And and likewise, the other side of it is I’ve had sellers say, Oh, no, I don’t put anything in CRM until I know that deals going to be 1.
21:50
How’s that helping the business that’s protected you, making you look like a rock star, But that’s not helping the business at all because they’re using the forecast in different ways, you know, and you can’t learn like, hey, it maybe look like, hey, we’re crushing it in this segment.
22:04
In reality, you’re not, you know, you’re actually suck at it, but it looks like you’re doing really well because the handful of deals they’re you’re closing them.
22:12
All right, we should be doing more deals like that.
22:15
Well, in reality, you are.
22:16
You just you only get to see the ones we’re we’re going to win that we know we’re going to win.
22:21
Yeah.
22:21
So it’s it’s I have an integrity.
22:25
I think in all aspects is just critical.
22:28
Exactly.
22:29
Totally agree.
22:30
Yeah, yeah.
22:31
What’s your favorite part about being a leader?
22:39
I’d say I’d say two things.
22:41
One is, is seeing my people succeed.
22:43
It’s, you know, especially if they’re a new seller when they, when they get that first sale in or they progress that deal is just seeing the excitement and, and, and, and their growth.
22:52
And that goes back to, like I said, you know, I, when I was at IBMII had inside sales sellers and seeing them transition from inside sales sellers to an outside sales seller and seeing the tremendous success they still continue to have to this day.
23:06
That’s, that’s, that’s really, you know, empowering and, and, and joyful for me.
23:12
And then probably the other one is it, it, it probably, it probably goes back to that.
23:18
It’s, it’s seeing my people move up and progress.
23:24
And, you know, whether it’s me, me lifting them up or them lifting themselves up, a combination thereof.
23:28
It’s, you know, when, when I’ve had sellers come to me, they’re like, I got this great opportunity.
23:33
I hate to leave you, but I got this great opportunity.
23:36
And sometimes it’s sales role, sometimes it’s a leadership role.
23:39
And it’s just, I hate to see him go, but knowing that, you know, in some way, shape or form, maybe I helped them move up there and then get that next step.
23:50
It’s it’s, it’s that wow moment for me.
23:52
Oh yeah, that’s awesome.
23:53
That’s awesome.
23:54
So you, I, I think one of the reasons we’re excited to have you on sales lead dog is because of your diverse background in, in technology and then selling technology.
24:05
AI is a huge topic in any part of pretty much every industry.
24:10
It’s pretty much all we’re hearing about these days.
24:13
From your perspective, what excites you about AI and the potential for AI just given your view of the landscape?
24:23
To be totally honest, I go back and forth on AI and how it’s being used.
24:29
And, you know, in some instances, I think it’s being used in a, in a very bad manner and you know, in a bad, bad way.
24:35
I’m going to say the recruiting systems that are using AI to create the job description and sort through the resumes, So many people are being left behind because they’re not putting the right keywords in their resume.
24:46
Where in the past you could walk into an HR department, they’d look at your resume and they’d have to read it.
24:53
But you know, I started using AI and you know, way back when, probably in, in 2000, believe it or not, 2001 in the hospital.
25:01
And at the time it was called decision support.
25:04
Yeah.
25:04
Oh, yeah.
25:04
I remember that.
25:05
Oh, my God, you’re taking me way back.
25:07
Decision support systems.
25:08
Yeah.
25:09
And it was, you know, the doctors would put in your symptoms and the computer would spit back out potential, you know, remedies or, or prescriptions and stuff like that.
25:17
So, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m dating myself when it was decision support.
25:20
And now it’s AI.
25:22
But I think AI when used properly, it’s it’s a monster game changer.
25:26
You can make decisions faster.
25:29
You know, when I was at EMC and you know, it never came to fruition.
25:31
But you know, when we’re talking about, you know, V blocks, one of the things we’re talking about is it would have the ability you’re running low on storage, you’re running low on memory, and it could automatically process an order for you that just went right to procurement and they would just have to OK it.
25:47
So I think AI can be used very positively to help you make decisions, to help you make those decisions quicker, to give you a competitive lead, whether you’re in, you know, in an industry or whether you’re in sales.
26:00
But when you when you rely on it solely to make decisions and take that human equation out, I think it becomes very dangerous.
26:08
Like a lot of HR people are being displaced now by AI.
26:12
You know, whether it’s for the resumes, whether it’s to determine who gets hired, who gets promoted.
26:17
When you start taking that human factor out of there, I think we’re we’re, we’re looking at a bad game changer.
26:23
Yeah, there are certain things like that, certain areas where I see that.
26:26
And we just, I just recorded an episode earlier this week with Mark Schaefer, who wrote a book about AI and what it’s the impact it’s having on your customers.
26:36
And one of the topics that we had there was how it’s taking critical thought.
26:43
It has a very strong potential to take critical thought out of our worlds, and that’s a very scary thing to think about.
26:54
You know, that human element that I mean, what people have to understand about AI is it’s only looking at the past.
27:01
That’s all it can do is look at the past and analyze what’s happened before and try to come up with a pattern and a path forward.
27:11
It is not good at creating something truly you new and unique.
27:18
And you know, it’s just not good at that.
27:20
Everything that it’s doing that it’s new, it’s really a compilation of a bunch of stuff from the past, you know, and, and that that is the downside to that, that especially the the if people are leaning too hard on it to write, if it writes everything for them, but they’re not really looking at it.
27:37
And how do I become better writer by leveraging what this tool’s doing for me or however you want to look at that.
27:45
To me, that’s the scary part of AI as well, that it’s, it has no compassion or vision.
27:51
No, no, he talks about that.
27:53
There’s no, I, I saw another video, I’ve been doing a lot of research on this that I, I saw a guy that he was psychologist.
27:59
He was actually saying if AI is a sociopath, it’s narcissistic.
28:04
It has no empathy.
28:06
It does not care about you at all.
28:09
It has no emotion about you at all.
28:12
But people are forming these emotional bonds with AI and it to me is really, it’s not something I can relate to.
28:21
I have absolutely no emotional attachment to AI at all.
28:24
I view it the same as I view the hammer in my garage or screwdriver in my toolbox.
28:30
It’s a tool that I’m used to get a job done that jobs done.
28:33
I’m not thinking about AI at all.
28:36
What, What do you see as a future for AI as a sales leader?
28:41
How should I be viewing AI and leveraging AI in a good way within my team?
28:49
I think you can use AI and, and I’ve used it for this to look at market trends, to look at who your competition is, to look at, you know, what people are buying, what people aren’t buying.
29:00
You know, I, I actually did AII, did an AII query just just last week and I was looking at what are the top market trends in the Southwest market for cybersecurity.
29:12
And it gave me some good input back that I was able to then though, take that, put it aside and actually do my own research when it said, you know, Healthcare is looking at XY and Z, you know, not only did I call some of my healthcare counterparts and be like, Hey, what do you think about this?
29:27
But I also went out to those sites and I was like, oh, OK, this, this could be game changing or this is decision support.
29:33
This has been around for 20-30 years.
29:35
It’s, it’s nothing new.
29:37
It’s not a game changer.
29:38
So I think, you know, from a sales perspective, you can use that to see what some of the trends are, to see what some of you know, your competition’s doing.
29:46
But you know, I, I got an e-mail the other day and it was like, Hey, Rob, you know, we, we can sell you this new AI platform to just start calendaring calendars for you, for, for prospects.
30:03
So it was gonna just go out and like, look at a database of users and just start putting calendar items on there for me.
30:10
And I was like, Oh my God, this is the worst thing in the world.
30:13
Oh yeah, ’cause you know, another good friend of mine is Aceo.
30:17
You know, he was talking to me a few weeks ago and he’s like, I’m, I’m just getting calendar items showing up on my calendar and he’s like, I’m just blacklisting these people.
30:26
He’s like, whether it’s through AI or whether it’s people just doing it, he’s like, I have to have my secretary, my executive assistant go through every day and look at my calendar and erase stuff, right?
30:36
Because it’s no one I know, right?
30:39
And that to me, it’s like you are really doing a disservice to people, to yourself, trying to leverage AI that way where you are just going to be so annoying, you know, that you’re not doing anything to build the relationship To me.
30:57
It reminds me of the people that knock on my door.
31:00
It’s saying, hey, we’re, we’re replacing a bunch of roofs in the neighborhood for your neighbors and we just want to stop by and see what you’re doing.
31:07
Like you’re not replacing anybody’s roofs in the neighborhood.
31:11
That’s your weight #1 you’re annoying me because you’re knocking on my door.
31:14
You maybe get up out of my chair away from the football game I’m watching or whatever to answer the door.
31:19
And now you’re lying to me.
31:21
No.
31:22
And you know, so I mean, it’s hard to be a seller today because, you know, COVID changed the game.
31:28
It really did.
31:29
So, you know, historically, you know, I used to show up with a box of Donuts and, and a business card and, and I would be like, I know you can’t talk to me today, but here’s my card.
31:39
This is what I’d like to talk to you about if you’d like to give me a call.
31:44
And and nine times out of 10, that works.
31:46
And then COVID popped up and, you know, nobody’s home anymore.
31:50
You, you, you knock on the office door and the office is empty.
31:53
So, so sellers were turning to e-mail, they were turning to LinkedIn to do that.
31:58
And it’s, it’s slowly shifting back where, you know, people are in the office two or three days a week.
32:03
But you know, people also aren’t leveraging their networks.
32:06
They’re not using that human interaction.
32:08
It’s you know, I, I have, you know, I’m not going to say thousands, but I have a handful, maybe dozens of people I can reach out to and be like, would you do me a solid and introduce me to one of your counterparts?
32:19
Yeah, yeah, you don’t need AI to do that.
32:22
No, it’s still about people.
32:25
It’s all about, to me, selling is always going to be about people.
32:28
There’s going to be tools, new tools that are AI powered that are enable us to make certain things easier for us.
32:34
But bottom line, it’s still, you have to sell to a person, you know, and, and you have to build that connection, that relationship, build that trust to, to close the deal.
32:45
Yeah, I, I, I, I worked for a manager at one point in time.
32:49
And you know, their, their, the entire company’s philosophy was you don’t have to go to your customers.
32:53
You don’t have to meet them face to face.
32:54
You don’t have to go to lunch, you don’t have to go.
32:56
And I was like, these, these are people that people buy from people and they buy from people they know and they trust.
33:03
And, you know, me sending out an e-mail or a phone call, you know, to try to get them to do $1,000,000 deal, that’s not going to happen, Right?
33:11
Yeah.
33:11
You have to go visit them.
33:12
You have to sit across the table from them where they can look in the eye and you can say I can get this done for you.
33:21
Exactly.
33:21
I mean, you know, I remember, you know, way back when, before Zoom was a thing and, and teleconferencing was a, you know, a major thing on everyone’s desktop.
33:28
You know, back when I was a CIOI, I’d get on a Webex and it was all, you know, just voice.
33:34
And, you know, I’d get bored and I’d walk away.
33:36
I’d go get a cup of coffee.
33:38
Yeah, so, you know, but when you’re in the room, and it goes back to when I did that first presentation, that EBC, people weren’t paying attention, people weren’t engaged.
33:47
So being able to have that interaction, I mean, yes, we can see each other, we can talk to each other here.
33:51
It’s almost live, but it’s not the same as if you and I were sitting in your living room.
33:55
Oh, no, Exactly.
33:56
Exactly.
33:57
Shifting gears, still talking about technology, but shifting gears a little bit.
34:00
CRM, do you love it or do you hate it?
34:05
It’s kind of a mixed bag for me.
34:07
That’s my #1 answer when I ask that question.
34:10
Yeah, CRMS can be incredibly powerful when they’re used correctly.
34:16
They can give you the life history of a deal so that, you know, if I get hit by a car, I go on vacation, someone can pick it up.
34:22
They can see every single step I’ve taken and you know, they’re really good for helping you have an accurate forecast.
34:31
They’re really good to help you understand or your manager understand what the next steps are on a deal.
34:36
You know, when and that’s when used properly.
34:39
There’s some CRMS out there that don’t allow you to do that.
34:41
They don’t allow you to have the history of the deal because it’s a 200 character limit.
34:45
So it’s like, OK, I know what he did last.
34:47
He made a phone call.
34:48
Big deal.
34:48
What was the phone call about?
34:51
And but, you know, on the negative side, and it’s going back to what you said said, you know, some people don’t use CRMS effectively.
34:59
They wait until the sows in their hand before they put the deal in and woo Hoo, look at these deals.
35:05
Great Rockstar.
35:07
So it it’s kind of a really a mixed deal.
35:09
And then you have the, you know, the leaders sometimes that are like just put everything in there.
35:15
It doesn’t matter.
35:17
And it becomes then just a jumble.
35:18
It’s like, you know what, I sent an e-mail to a customer.
35:21
They haven’t replied back, but I should have, you know, why should I put that in the CRM?
35:25
Well, you know, you, you have to track 10 calls and 10 emails a day.
35:28
It’s like you’re going to know if I’m doing my job or not.
35:31
Yeah.
35:31
That, that I, I have a, a real issue with that.
35:35
When I hear like, oh, no, we have certain, you know, quotas of how much they need to be doing every day.
35:41
Why exactly why?
35:44
And now if they come and say, look, we’ve done the research, we know if we get to this level of engagement, we can get a meeting, OK, that makes sense.
35:58
But if it’s so, no, we just have a number.
35:59
We just got to hit our quota that someone told us we have to do 10 of these and ten of these.
36:04
All you’re doing is is wasting people’s time.
36:06
You’re not leveraging the power of this tool.
36:10
You’re using it as a stick hoping, hey, if I whack these people enough, they’ll they’ll start moving in the direction I want them to move it it.
36:18
Yeah, good luck with that.
36:18
They might for a little while, but after a while they’re going to learn, hey, how to avoid your stick.
36:23
They’re going to learn how to avoid the stick or just how to avoid to get out of.
36:25
I mean, yeah, OK, yeah.
36:26
Send emails Here’s, you know, and they’re just going to blast them through LinkedIn.
36:29
Yeah.
36:30
Yeah.
36:30
Now the nice thing with tracking your stuff now is AI can go back and read all of that stuff and track, you know, here’s all the emails, you know, the summary of the emails you’ve had or the summary of the phone calls.
36:45
Here’s the summary of all your interactions.
36:48
So the next time I’m reaching out to them, I don’t have to go through to read and try to remember.
36:52
Oh God, what?
36:53
You know, what did we talk about last time?
36:54
Whatever AI can tell me.
36:56
And now I can move forward correctly and, and quickly and and there you go.
37:01
You’re using it as a tool.
37:02
As a tool.
37:03
Exactly.
37:04
Yeah, I’m using it as a tool.
37:05
It’s not a, you know, anyway, it just yeah, that’s I see that a lot where people don’t understand it’s they’re they’re forgetting the human part around this technology.
37:18
You know that it’s people you’re trying to get to use this tool and they want to sell.
37:22
Ultimately they want to sell to make money.
37:24
If CRM is not enabling that, you’re you know that you got a real problem.
37:30
And it’s not about the technology, you know it, It’s that that’s the other thing that I see a lot.
37:35
But Rob, we’re at our time here.
37:38
This always, it always goes so fast for me.
37:40
I see that every episode.
37:42
But it, it always does, the time just blurs by.
37:45
If people want to reach out and connect with you, learn more about what you do, what’s the best way for them to do that?
37:51
You know, probably LinkedIn.
37:52
I am on LinkedIn.
37:53
I, I, I, I try to post once or twice a month on LinkedIn.
37:56
Just just some random thought.
37:58
So, you know, if they want to reach out to me on LinkedIn, you know, they can get my contact information.
38:02
It’ll, it’ll send me a note.
38:03
We, we can, we can correspond via e-mail or phone, depending what the topic is.
38:07
I’m always happy to, you know, talk to new sellers and I’m always happy to get information from other people to make me a better seller.
38:14
That’s awesome.
38:14
That’s awesome.
38:16
So if you did get that, don’t worry about it.
38:18
It is in our show notes where you get direct link to Rob’s LinkedIn.
38:23
Be sure to check that out at impellercrm.com/sales Lead Dog where you’ll get not only this episode, but our 160 plus episodes of Sales Lead Dog.
38:33
Be sure to check that out and subscribe.
38:35
We’d appreciate it and we would love for you to get all our future episodes of Sales Lead Dog.
38:39
Rob, thank you again for coming on the show and welcome to the Sales Lead Dog Pack.
38:44
Thanks so much.
38:44
It’s been awesome.
38:45
And yeah, check out those videos because I was watching them.
38:47
They’re great.
38:48
Awesome.
38:48
Thank you.
38:49
Really great content out there.
38:52
As we end this discussion on Sales Lead Dog, be sure to subscribe to catch all our episodes on social media.
39:00
Follow us on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram.
39:03
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39:12
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