0:01
Welcome to the Sales Lead Dog podcast hosted by CRM technology and sales process expert Christopher Smith.
0:09
Talking with sales leaders that have separated themselves from the rest of the pack.
0:13
Listen to find out how the best of the best achieved success with their team and CRM technology.
0:20
And remember, unless you were the lead dog, the view never changes.
0:26
Welcome to sales lead dog.
0:28
Today I have joined me Rick Jordan.
0:30
Rick, there’s so many different ways I can introduce you.
0:33
Rick is big time serial entrepreneur.
0:37
He is a very popular speaker coach.
0:42
He has his own podcast All in with Rick Jordan, as well as he’s the CEO of his own business, Reach out Technology.
0:52
Rick, welcome to sales lead dog.
0:55
What’s shaking, my man?
0:56
How you doing, Chris?
0:56
You’ve got a lot shaking.
0:59
Yeah.
0:59
Yeah.
0:59
I don’t know any other way, brother.
1:01
Yeah, No, I I it’s my been my life since I started my first company.
1:05
I was 23.
1:06
You just like go all in.
1:08
Yep.
1:08
That’s how it has to be.
1:10
Absolutely.
1:10
Yep.
1:11
Awesome.
1:13
Rick, tell me a bit about let’s start.
1:16
I want to hear a little bit about your podcast.
1:18
Yeah, let’s start with that.
1:21
All right.
1:21
Well, it’s it’s been going now for six years.
1:23
We’ve got, geez, over 500 episodes that are out there and you know it, it started.
1:29
I love the story of this because when I first got into launching a personal brand, if I could even call it that, like I didn’t really know that at the time in 2018 that I was launching this thing that had a label.
1:42
You know, I just really started going out there and speaking and going on TVI just thought the the bigger that I could make my presence in things that it would benefit me all around, you know, and it’s a it’s a good lesson on personal branding too.
1:55
I mean, especially when we’re talking about sales.
1:57
It’s like you got to be findable, man.
1:59
That’s one of the things I thought years ago, you know, because nowadays you go out and you’re trying to make a deal or whatever, you meet a prospect, they’re Googling you, not just the customer, but they’re Googling you personally.
2:09
See where you come from, what you’re all about.
2:12
And when I launched the personal brand, it was about a year into it.
2:16
I hired A branding agency and the first one, I’ve gone through three and now I do everything in house now.
2:21
But the first one was like, hey, you know what, as long as we’re talking about social and everything, you need a podcast.
2:27
And I was like, all right, then let’s go.
2:29
Everyone asks, you know, when they’re talking about the podcast, ’cause it’s, it’s globally ranked.
2:33
And I’m grateful for how successful it’s been.
2:36
Like why just start it?
2:38
That’s the one question everybody asks.
2:39
I’m like, well, because somebody told me to that, that that was it.
2:44
You know, it’s like you need this.
2:45
I’m like, OK.
2:46
But then going through it, I mean, I had some great guests right off the bat, you know, just from forming connections and networking.
2:52
You know, I think Naveen Jane was one of my very first ones, you know, within the 1st 6 episodes or whatever.
2:57
And he and I have been friends ever since.
2:59
But just a incredible experience man, going through this and I’m never going to stop, you know, even when even when things start to get, you know, sometimes they can become a grind ’cause I mean, I’m the CEO of a cybersecurity company.
3:11
We just took a public a year ago, you know this, there’s a lot of things that demand my bandwidth, but this is something I’m going to keep doing forever because I love meeting new people.
3:19
And even more so from a sales perspective, dude, it is absolutely essential for any salesperson to continue to grow your linguistic abilities, and a podcast is a way to do that.
3:33
I do solo episodes.
3:35
I interview guests.
3:36
You know, a lot of episodes I do solo because obviously I speak on stages, if you count podcasts and, you know, speaking on traditional stages, TV and, you know, even playing my guitar and then preaching because I was I was an ordinary pastor, all of that.
3:51
You know, it’s like I’ve been on over 5000 stages, conservatively speaking, in the last 20 years.
3:56
Yeah.
3:56
So the more that you can do means the more that you can actually speak to whatever situation you’re placed in and better yet, even communicate more clearly.
4:06
Oh, I agree.
4:07
It’s when I started this journey of my podcast, the same originate, you know, someone came to me and said, you need to do this.
4:15
And I’m like, why?
4:17
And once we went through that, I realized, yeah, he’s right.
4:20
It is about creating a brand.
4:21
It’s it’s getting out there.
4:23
But one of those tangible benefits is I’ve become very comfortable as the speaker.
4:28
I thought I was pretty comfortable before, but I’m on a like a whole new level now in my ability to speak, but also what I call tap dance when I’m when I’m talking to somebody and they go in a direction maybe I wasn’t prepared to go in because of what I’m doing on the podcast.
4:46
That’s all we do.
4:47
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
4:48
And so I’ve definitely built that muscle.
4:50
That’s good, brother.
4:51
I appreciate that.
4:52
I was on a show a few weeks ago.
4:54
I don’t even remember the name of the show, which is horrible.
4:56
It was probably the worst show I’ve ever been on, you know, and I’m OK with saying I’m direct too.
5:00
But it was like the first 30 minutes, it was, you know, it was an hour, you know, an hour blocked off on my calendar.
5:06
But the first 30 minutes was almost like a pre interview, you know, and I, I was, I was sitting there and every single time, like what you were saying, she’s like, OK, she would ask a question.
5:15
I’d be like, I’d answer them like, see, we can just go right into this.
5:18
Let’s go, let let, let’s hit record.
5:20
Let’s go.
5:21
And then she says this is the thing that she’s like, well, maybe you’re OK to just go off the cuff, but I’m not.
5:27
I need to know my questions and your answers for the entire show.
5:31
Oh, my.
5:32
And I was like, oh, yeah.
5:33
And then I think about like sales, you know, seriously.
5:36
Like, how do you prepare for that?
5:38
Because there are curveballs that are thrown every single sales engagement, man.
5:42
Yeah.
5:42
Yeah.
5:42
So it’s like, if you’re going to go in there robotic like that, you’re never going to close a deal.
5:46
If you’re going to go into a podcast like that, you’re never going to grow an audience.
5:50
No, no, it it’s I don’t like to when people start telling me when I stop talking.
5:55
Save it for the show.
5:56
Yeah dude, I’m guilty of that.
5:58
I’m going to do so much COPO beforehand.
6:01
I’m like don’t stop talking.
6:02
Let’s save it.
6:03
It’s going to be good.
6:04
I know what I’m asking you just and we’ll go Yep, even even sales team members that I coach, man, or even, you know, other other service industry business owners, CEO’s, all that.
6:14
It’s like you can have a template, you know, but the, but the template is just really designed to get you to be a better communicator.
6:21
And in order to be a better communicator, you have to be listening to everything that that person is saying.
6:27
And I’ll, I’ll coach.
6:28
It’s like even sales, it’s like, that’s great.
6:30
But you they also have to feel heard.
6:33
That’s how you’re going to make that connection.
6:34
So whatever they say, they could say, Oh, you know what, you know, if you ask it, you know, general sales question, right?
6:40
It’s like, oh, what’s your priorities for 2025?
6:43
You know, and they’re like, oh, you know what I’m looking to to 20% on top of my revenue compound annual growth this year, 20%.
6:52
I’m bumping it up and I’m like, oh, cool.
6:54
And then they go on to their next question that’s on the form.
6:56
It’s like wait time out.
6:59
That’s a big thing to talk about.
7:00
Exactly.
7:01
It’s a, you know, and it’s a, there’s four questions and they can usually be asked in this order in a very successful way for a sales engagement.
7:09
It’s what then how, then when, then where, you know, literally in that order, you know, so it’s like the what I’m at, I’m going to grow 20%.
7:18
You know, they gave you that already.
7:19
It’s like, oh, how did, how do you propose to do that?
7:21
Because that’s not a typical number that somebody would actually just throw out.
7:25
It seems like you already have a pretty strategic plan.
7:27
What can you tell me about that strategic plan and how you’re going to execute on it?
7:31
That’s one level deep, right?
7:32
Then you can go another level deep based of what what they say right there.
7:35
And then one more.
7:36
You should always go 3 levels deeper than that very top question that you ask.
7:42
Oh, no, it’s crazy.
7:44
And yeah, it’s, I could agree with you more.
7:48
It’s it’s yeah, it’s kind of like, OK, I can’t relate to that because I’m like you.
7:53
I’m like, I I love the dance.
7:56
Yeah.
7:56
You know what I mean?
7:57
That’s that’s part of the energy is that, hey, I’m asking a question.
8:00
I don’t know how you’re going to answer it, but I’ve been doing this long enough, I know I’ll be able to riff off of it totally.
8:07
You know, a good friend of mine, David Meltzer, always says be more interested than interesting.
8:10
And I always define it myself as curiosity.
8:13
Yeah.
8:13
And it’s intentional curiosity.
8:17
Yeah.
8:17
And it’s it.
8:18
That’s such a good way to put it because when you are talking to someone and they do that to me, it’s very clear.
8:26
They’re not even listening.
8:27
They’re thinking about what’s their next question that they won’t get to.
8:31
That’s listening to respond, right?
8:32
It’s exactly, it’s like you’re not, you’re following some script or whatever.
8:38
You don’t even care.
8:40
I had a phone call like that the other night.
8:42
This student called me to raise money for my school and I knew what it was for, but the way that she did it, and I knew she was following her script.
8:51
She just tried to get through her script.
8:53
And I’m like, this is just, this is not working.
8:56
I know what you’re doing.
8:58
You’re feeding interest in me to get where you want to go.
9:02
Yeah.
9:03
And you can’t do that in sales.
9:05
Exactly.
9:05
There is something, some good things to be said about a script, though, because it’s a, and there’s a, there’s a phrase I’ll use.
9:12
It’s like you should know your script if you have a script, you know, if you’re doing cold calls or whatever else beyond memorization, you should memorize it beyond memorization.
9:20
Because that way, to your point, Chris, you can actually kind of weave in and out, except that you’re always coming back to that because you’re always going to a destination.
9:29
But if they throw something out there, you can ask those three level deep questions, find out more information, then go right back to it.
9:35
I would say for for cold callers, just like this is great.
9:37
You can ask this question here, right?
9:39
And then sometimes it’s like no matter what their answer is, you can go right to the next question.
9:45
You know, it doesn’t like what if they say this?
9:48
It’s like it doesn’t matter, you know?
9:50
And what does matter is that you’re taking a mental note to what they said.
9:54
So you can bring that home at the end and book the appointment, ask for the order or whatever it is because now you’re gaining more information about really who they are and what they’re about 100%.
10:04
Let’s dive a little bit deeper into what you’re about.
10:07
For those of you who don’t know Rick’s story, I’m going to have him share it with you.
10:10
Tell our listeners how you ended up in sales.
10:14
I think it’s a pretty fascinating story.
10:17
Oh, man, the, the, the very first, you know, actually I think it maybe even earlier that the story I typically tell us about McDonald’s.
10:24
Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s the best, it really is.
10:27
Because I mean, I was the first Geek Squad agent in Chicago, you know, several years after that.
10:32
But when I was brought into Geek Squad, I was a manager at the tech bench at Best Buy.
10:38
You know, I was doing like project management before that from Merrill Lynch to an enterprise level IT stuff.
10:42
But really sales was was the gig, man.
10:44
I mean, before that I was a store manager for RadioShack, which is all sales.
10:48
Prior to that though, dude, McDonald’s.
10:51
So when corporate a Geek Squad, when we had these seven test stores within Best Buy all across the country, they were integrating this new acquisition, they come to me.
10:59
It’s like, Rick, we don’t get it.
11:01
Why are your per ticket sales three times higher than the other six test stores?
11:07
And I’m like, well, what do you mean?
11:08
They’re like, no, your, your revenue.
11:10
Like I’m like, oh, you’re tracking that.
11:11
That’s good.
11:12
Like, yeah, we’re your per ticket is 3 times higher.
11:16
How are you doing this?
11:17
I’m like, well, have you ever worked at McDonald’s?
11:19
And that crew was like, no, I’m like, well, I can tell you’ve eaten there.
11:22
You know, a little bit of a joke.
11:23
You know, I used to be pretty big too, right?
11:25
I used to be 280 lbs, all fat, not like 215, all muscle like I am now, but it’s, but looking at that, I’m like, well, you’ve eaten there.
11:32
Obviously.
11:33
What happens when you order something?
11:36
Yeah, it’s like there’s always an upsell.
11:38
So if it’s, and it’s not just one, and this is important for sales too, right?
11:42
There’s always got to be somewhere to go because if it’s oh, I want 1/4 pounder today.
11:46
Oh, would you like a coconut fry with that?
11:49
Yeah.
11:49
And they’re like, oh, OK, well, I’ll make that a meal.
11:52
It’s like, cool, would you like to super size that?
11:55
It’s another thing, right, that they can continue to add on to that.
11:58
But even if you come into McDonald’s and you’re like, I want a quarter Ponder with cheese meal, I want the number three.
12:04
I don’t know if it’s a number three.
12:05
Maybe it is.
12:06
When I worked there, I think it was #3 yeah, maybe it still is.
12:09
I remember the Big Mac meal.
12:10
Yeah, the Big Mac meal was #1 Dude, I haven’t eaten there.
12:14
You know, with the exception of emergencies, like during COVID, I did in an airport and I got chicken tenders, OK, because nothing else was open.
12:21
But I haven’t had the burgers in literally over a decade.
12:24
So yeah, the, the Big Mac was 1.
12:27
Double or two cheeseburgers was two, quarter Ponder was 3.
12:30
So it’s like, say I want a #3 super sized with a Coke or a Sprite or whatever.
12:36
What comes next?
12:38
They always ask, what would you like an apple pie with that?
12:41
There’s always something.
12:43
There’s always something.
12:44
Yeah.
12:44
So what?
12:45
When I, when I expressed that to them, they’re like, they still didn’t get it, bro.
12:48
And that was the thing.
12:49
I was like, come on.
12:50
I’m like when I’m out there.
12:51
And then I had to explain it.
12:52
I’m like, if I’m sitting there and I’m there to remove a virus because they were looking at some free **** site the night before, I’m looking around and I’m like, hey, your printer shows an error message on it.
13:06
Can I help you with that while I’m here?
13:08
You know, so you’re, you’re looking around for the other opportunities.
13:12
And usually, dude, those are just right in front of you with any customer, as long as you’re listening, as long as you’re observing, and especially as long as you’re curious.
13:22
That’s the key.
13:23
Do you want fries with that?
13:24
The best sales question ever?
13:25
Do you want fries with that?
13:26
Do you want fries with that?
13:28
And yeah, and you have to have that curiosity and you have to be, in my opinion, we’re talking about this.
13:34
You have to be genuine in it, you know, and that, that, that you can’t come across as just pushy or fake, especially when we’re selling what, what we’re, you know, most people are selling these days.
13:47
They’re, it’s high value.
13:49
It’s, you know, it’s, it’s, you know, usually get some money behind it.
13:53
You’re not ordering a Big Mac, you know, I have to mail or whatever, you know, Yep, that carried into RadioShack too, brother.
14:01
Because I mean, at McDonald’s, I, I started there when I was 15.
14:05
I had to get a work permit, you know, because it’s 16 years old was the working age in Illinois.
14:08
I I think it’s pretty much that across all the states, unless it’s agriculture or something.
14:14
At 15, I went there and at 15 you were not allowed to work the grill area because of insurance reasons.
14:20
Yeah, you had to be 16.
14:21
So I was either on the front register or I was in the drive through and they found a real quick that I was actually able to even bump up a lot of the order prices in the drive through, you know, and, and it didn’t take the, The thing is to, I mean, there’s KP is in every industry too, right?
14:37
In fast food, Chick-fil-A has it, McDonald’s has it, there’s how quickly can you turn those orders through the drive through.
14:45
And at the same time, the other KP is what’s the per ticket value?
14:49
Literally like that’s it.
14:51
That’s all they worry about.
14:52
How much do we make on average per each one and how fast can we turn them?
14:55
The only two KPIs that matter in that, and I would simply encourage anybody simplify sales to very simple KPIs do it makes people hungrier, they sell better.
15:05
Just not all these weird complex Commission schedules and all of that.
15:08
Just make it simple and people will sell more.
15:11
But I took that because it’s like you ask everybody, there’s always something to add on.
15:15
I took that to, to RadioShack.
15:17
Yeah, I, I, I worked at McDonald’s for maybe 2 years.
15:19
I took it to RadioShack and Christmas, I was 17 years old.
15:24
I’ll never forget this that season for, for December, I asked everybody who came up to the counter with anything, right?
15:31
They, they would have a pack of AA batteries, right?
15:34
Or they might have ATV.
15:36
You know, it didn’t matter what it was they could be buying cause RadioShack told sold like resistors and capacitors, right?
15:42
They were like 19 cents.
15:43
OK, cheap.
15:45
They’d be like, I just need this.
15:46
And I’m like, oh, what are you doing?
15:47
You know, a curiosity question, ’cause I’m curious.
15:49
I’m like, I know how to solder, but I don’t know how to use those components.
15:53
What are you doing?
15:53
Oh, you know, I’m fixing, you know, this, this board for an RC car or something like that.
15:57
I’m like, well, that’s pretty cool.
15:58
Well, here’s the question, right?
16:00
Would you like a cell phone for a penny to go with that?
16:04
And it would stop.
16:05
It’s the same question, dude.
16:06
It’s the same as would you like fries with that?
16:08
Yeah, it is.
16:09
People would be like what?
16:11
Because back then phones had contracts, you know, and they were subsidized.
16:15
But the big thing was phones for a penny.
16:17
Yeah, this was like 199798 something like that, just after the bag phone era, you know, the the first real portable phones.
16:25
Like what are you talking about?
16:26
And I’m like, well, this is what you can do.
16:28
You know, it’s, you know, the, the plans start at $30.00 a month.
16:31
You know, everybody I think, which I did, I’m like, I got one.
16:34
I’m like everybody I think needs to have one of these.
16:37
Like I remember and I would tell a story, my mom real quick, quick story.
16:40
When my mom had one of these, she had a bag phone.
16:43
It was great because she was able to call my dad in a parking lot because she felt unsafe with somebody around her.
16:49
Very true story, right?
16:50
He was exposing himself, you know, and she was able to call him and call the call my dad and call the police.
16:55
It was great.
16:56
But or you can use it like I do for literally everything.
16:59
I’m the only 17 year old that I know that literally just calls all my friends from my cell phone.
17:03
You know, they’re like, wow.
17:05
So I’m like show them both ends of the spectrum.
17:07
It was a 2 minute pitch with with starting with the same kind of question and dude asking everybody.
17:15
I sold 300 phones over that that month, and every phone we would get a $100 spiff as a Commission.
17:24
So 17 years old man, at RadioShack, I had a $30,000 Commission check for the month of December.
17:30
Isn’t that crazy?
17:31
It was insane.
17:32
And I’m like, this is great, you know, Yeah, I bought a new car.
17:36
You know, I ended up buying an engagement ring, got engaged.
17:40
I’m glad that didn’t work out.
17:41
We ended up breaking up, but still, Yeah, everything.
17:44
I’m like, I’m making money.
17:45
Let’s go.
17:46
Oh, yeah.
17:47
Boy, if that’s not going to put a fire in your belly, like, hey, this is a potential future career for me.
17:51
I don’t know for sure, dude.
17:53
No joke.
17:54
Like, I thought that I was set for life.
17:55
And seriously, still to this day, that is what has made me set for life is sales.
18:00
And I don’t care what interaction you are, even if you’re a parent in front of your kids, you were seriously selling yourself to your kids that you can be a provider, a protector, A nurturer.
18:09
You know, I’m not talking about any specific gender roles whatsoever here, but it’s just, you know, any of those things you were you were selling yourself to your kids that this is who I’m going to be for you.
18:18
Everything in life is sales.
18:20
Yeah, I believe that in the other part, when you’re telling the stories that you’re telling, you’re being very genuine and saying, hey, this can help you if you’re a situation where you need help, this is your mechanism to get the help you need.
18:36
This is not just, hey, I’m going to tell you something you’re never going to use.
18:39
You’re going to stick it in a drawer right on.
18:42
You’re helping people.
18:43
To me, that’s a huge part of selling too.
18:46
It’s truly caring about who you’re you’re selling to and doing what you can to help them.
18:51
Bingo, you got it.
18:53
Yep.
18:53
There’s a lot of fun stories on how we got this started, this whole game of sales started.
18:57
Let’s shift gears a little bit and talk about, you know, I’m a big believer in in when you’re a leader and you’re, you know, you’re at the top of your business.
19:09
But so I don’t care where you are in that sales or that leadership hierarchy, when you have a leadership role, it could be very tough to maintain balance.
19:19
Yeah.
19:20
What’s your philosophy for yourself and for what you try to impose your team about maintaining that balance as a leader?
19:28
Yeah, it’s a good question.
19:29
And I’ve been coaching team members on this recently this year.
19:33
I mean, lots of growth.
19:35
I I’ve also recognized that there also has to be a lot of leadership coaching.
19:40
Yeah, it’s, it’s tough to grow fast.
19:43
I’m I’m telling you that I’ve done it the last two years and some of it’s great and some of it really sucks.
19:49
It’s going public, you know, lots of acquisitions and some of it was great, some of it not so great.
19:56
That when it comes to the people aspect, that’s really the toughest part, man.
20:00
And it’s, you know, generating new sales to me.
20:02
I mean, I’ve been doing it so long and being able to coach that out, as long as it’s the right people, right butts, right seats, you know it, it works well.
20:09
However, the people aspect of it is a is a little different and trying to train leaders because it’s coaching leaders and I the the phrase I’ll use a lot, it’s like if they’re, if they’re giving constant praise and it’s like, oh, this is great.
20:22
You can, you can achieve these incentives, you know, or if it’s sales commissions, you know, but almost everybody in the company that I have is incentivized based off of KP is even service delivery, you know, and it’s like great, you know, you can do this way to go.
20:34
It’s like, but then it’s like just brushing over the bad stuff where you didn’t make it, you know, and it’s I love to win, dude.
20:45
And you know, it’s I’m not this guy who believes in participation trophies or, or anything like that.
20:52
So it’s like when I put it out to the team to even like, hey, if you have like a top five for the day and it’s like, I get these five things done or I die, you know, like those things.
21:01
But it really means I win the day.
21:03
Yeah.
21:04
And then it’s a, it’s a concept from Andy Farcella, you know, from MFCEO.
21:08
And then now it’s real, real AF.
21:10
But he, he talks about this.
21:12
But The thing is, is like, if you miss one of those, you lose, you know, because the, the, The thing is, you’re winning the day.
21:18
It’s like even if you’re playing baseball, which I did for nine years, seriously, you, you know, you can score 12 runs, which is a high scoring baseball game for any team, right?
21:29
But if that other team scores 13, you still lost the game.
21:33
Like, it didn’t matter how good you played because you might have played your heart out and you still lost.
21:40
Yeah.
21:40
So when it comes to to the people that are here within my company, it’s like you can’t have leadership yen without the leadership Yang.
21:48
You can’t be all praise and all encouragement and all inspiration while not also saying, hey, you know what?
21:56
Today it kind of sucked, you know, and it, you know, there’s a way to get out of this.
22:01
Maybe it’s mental with you today, but it’s the same thing like with baseball.
22:04
I coach just like a base.
22:06
I’d lead just like a baseball coach.
22:07
Seriously.
22:07
Maybe it’s because I played it for 9 years.
22:09
You know, it’s like, hey, you know what, third inning, you’re not doing so hot today, Go sit on the bench, you know, sit there for two innings, get your head right and then get back into the game.
22:20
You know, if it’s a head thing, you know, but if it’s if it’s a competency thing, it’s like, you know what, I see some improvements you need to make.
22:27
You struck out three times a day.
22:28
I see your swings a little high.
22:30
We’re going to work on that in practice this week.
22:33
So you don’t have this again because today you didn’t really do so well.
22:37
However, I can see why.
22:38
So let’s put in the hard work and let’s fix this.
22:41
Let’s repair this, you know, it has nothing to do.
22:44
Like when it comes to a job, it has nothing to do with like if you don’t do this, you’re fired.
22:48
I hate those kinds of ultimatums, right?
22:50
Because if, if a person needs to be fired, you just know and there’s no dragging on.
22:55
I don’t believe in pips performance improvement plans.
22:58
You know, it’s like this person either has the character and the competency or they have to go.
23:03
They can’t even have one, one or the other.
23:05
They have to have both of those, you know, and the competency sometimes you can work on if they are willing.
23:12
So when it comes to leadership, it’s like that’s what you have to determine as a leader.
23:16
What’s my time investment that I need to put into this person?
23:19
Is this person willing to put in the work that they need to put in with my guidance in order to get to a level that is acceptable to where performance is good for the company and they are happy as a human and fulfilled with what they’re doing?
23:34
Yeah.
23:34
And those require those really direct conversations, man, you know, just as direct as you crushed it today, you’re going to see 10 grand next month on your check because this is your commissions because you just closed that deal today.
23:47
Way to go celebrate it, right?
23:50
And then it’s the next day, dude.
23:51
What’s the next day?
23:52
I mean, it’s sales, right?
23:53
Get your *** back after it.
23:55
There’s more to close.
23:56
Come on now, keep going.
23:57
You know, it’s just like a trainer in a gym or something like that, you know, but dude, there’s no way to have the the yen without the Yang when it comes to leadership.
24:04
It it’s high praise and high expectations.
24:09
Best way to lead.
24:10
No, it really is.
24:11
It’s like to me, you truly can’t be a leader without both sides of that, you know, and there’s factors, there’s elements that give you that ability to have that balance.
24:20
I think it’s vulnerability, empathy, being able to listen, being curious, you know, for example, hey, you suck today.
24:29
What’s going on?
24:31
What’s what’s behind this?
24:32
Let’s talk about this.
24:34
What’s wrong with saying that too, bro?
24:36
I don’t think there’s anything, you know, ’cause it’s just like people know that’s the thing.
24:40
And it’s like, you’re not calling.
24:41
It’s like, but when people are sucking it up, they know they’re sucking it up, you know?
24:46
So if if it’s coming from a genuine spot as a leader, a, a, a place to where you’re not coddling emotions, but you’re you’re allowing that person to actually grapple reality and say that, OK, today was not good or this month was not good.
25:03
Yeah, there’s no way to actually move forward and improve unless you have acceptance of the reality where you’re at right now.
25:09
If you can as a leader, help somebody accept the reality of where they’re at, you are what?
25:14
Seriously, like one of the best, I’d say top 1% leaders of the world because that’s your job.
25:18
It’s to be like, this is real.
25:20
Where we’re at right now is real.
25:22
And guess what?
25:23
Where we could be a month from now can also be real.
25:25
So let’s chart a course to get there.
25:27
But in order to do that, we’re not going to live in fantasy world today.
25:30
Oh, no, no, we got some work to do That’s OK.
25:32
Or you know what, we really freaking crushed it last month.
25:35
Now let’s continue it to keep hitting the numbers and improve on them too, because we’re doing great.
25:39
Yeah.
25:39
And that’s the other part again, curiosity in terms of we crushed it.
25:43
Looking back, why?
25:46
What’s the reasons behind?
25:48
Like, hey, what are we do?
25:49
Did we make, did we make some adjustments?
25:51
What were they?
25:53
You know what, what’s behind that?
25:55
We can’t just assume everybody loves us, right?
25:58
Because that fades.
26:00
Beauty fades.
26:02
You’ve got to be delivering.
26:04
What are we delivering?
26:06
What are we saying?
26:06
Do we make some adjustments?
26:08
Do we make additional adjustments?
26:10
You have to have that curiosity.
26:11
Right on, brother, right on.
26:15
What is your biggest challenge?
26:17
What’s the hardest thing for you to do as a leader?
26:20
As a leader, Oh man, it’s AI will say that it’s actually managing is the hardest thing for me to do as a leader.
26:28
And I say that because a lot of people think that they’re synonymous.
26:32
And I, I don’t believe that they are, you know, because it’s the, it’s the consistent development, which, which I’m OK with doing, but it’s, it’s not my, my strong suit.
26:42
You know, I can pour into somebody and change somebody’s life in an instance, you know, but riding somebody and maybe it’s just a circle that I run in because it’s the same as me.
26:51
It’s it’s difficult for me to teach consistency.
26:58
Yeah, in order for, I think that that’s OK too, you know, but it, but it’s better for some other people, you know.
27:03
So if we’re talking like baseball there, there’s different levels.
27:06
And it’s not that I’m saying like I’m the greatest in the world at all, but it’s there’s a Major League and there’s a minor league.
27:11
There’s a different consistency, resilience and impact level for those players, whether you’re major or minor leagues, you know, and that there’s a different investment that they have with their heart.
27:24
I believe in it as well, you know, so it’s like if you want to play with me, it’s high performance, you know, and I’ve had conversations with some of my best people here, even like my #2 employee that I hired 13 years ago at the company.
27:37
I remember this, it was 10 years ago, I believe it was 2014.
27:41
I’m like, I need to be able to ask you to do things and just know that they’re going to get done.
27:46
Like that’s an expectation that I have, you know, so, and if there’s an issue, if you don’t know how, that’s all good.
27:52
But I expect you to come to me and say, I don’t know how or if you don’t have the bandwidth because there’s something else that took priority in your decision.
27:59
You’re a smart human, that’s all good.
28:00
You know, you come to me and say that.
28:03
So management, you know, which I do believe you absolutely need managers, especially for line level employees, 100%.
28:11
But there’s a there’s a difference, you know, because if you’ve got leaders at the top, I believe managers come underneath that failure is a big part of selling.
28:21
You’re you’re not even a baseball.
28:22
No one’s you’re if you’re hitting 400, you’re crushing it.
28:26
You’re a, you’re like, you know, Hall of Fame crushing it.
28:31
How do you leverage failure in your role as a leader?
28:34
Wow, failure.
28:35
I like to redefine that world, man, that world of failure, because it’s AI don’t know it’s AI.
28:42
Did a, a show, an episode of my show about this, but it was, you know, temporary setbacks versus permanent defeats.
28:52
You know, it’s a, it’s a way that I, I choose to define or redefine that word failure, you know, because of people like, oh, I failed.
29:00
And I think that failure over the last couple years, especially in entrepreneurship, you know, has been glamorized, you know, to the point to where it’s like, oh, you get like Pixie dust and glitter all over you if you fail.
29:12
You know, it’s, and even this phrase like fail forward, you know, is a phrase that I’ve heard too.
29:17
I’m like, well, that’s just stupid, you know, people, people glamorizing this because failure sucks.
29:23
You know, I, I do believe that, that it’s essential to take learnings from that, but straight up like, if I can look at somebody else and be like, oh, you fall on your face over there like 18,000 times, why’d you do that?
29:37
I’m not going to do that same thing.
29:38
I’m learning from what you’re doing wrong, you know, and I can take that here, but you know, that this failure thing about, oh, you have to fail in order to succeed.
29:46
Well, I think that’s like a natural occurrence in life.
29:50
I don’t think it’s something that should be sought out.
29:53
Hard to fail.
29:54
Like, yeah, look at me.
29:55
I failed so much trying to fail.
29:58
Exactly.
29:59
And you hear this from stages all the time, man.
30:01
You know, speakers that are up there, you know, look, you know, just touting and boasting about these failures that they had.
30:08
It’s like great, you know, and I’ve, I’ve had some great things come out of really bad moments.
30:15
Yeah, yeah, At the same time, I wish I didn’t have those bad moments.
30:19
Oh, exactly.
30:22
I think what’s get lost, that it gets lost in this.
30:25
And I, I love the way you’re the first person who’s answered that question that way, because I feel the same way.
30:31
It’s you have to reframe failure.
30:33
I don’t particularly care for that word.
30:36
And I love how you said that.
30:39
I’m gonna totally RIP that off, by the way.
30:41
Do it, please.
30:44
Let’s form an army.
30:45
OK, Exactly.
30:46
Glamorizing failure in this.
30:48
Yeah.
30:48
It’s to me, what’s key is being able to recognize that you’re failing.
30:55
I think a lot of people don’t have that skill.
30:58
They just keep banging their head against the wall.
31:00
They’re not because you’re saying they follow their they’re willing to fall in their face that 18,000 time and instead of saying like, Jeez, my face hurts.
31:08
What am I doing that’s making my face hurt, you know, and what do I need to adjust so I don’t have to fall on my face again?
31:16
You know, and it’s so it’s being able to recognize failure and pivot, you know, learn.
31:22
You have to learn to be able to pivot.
31:24
You just don’t want to pivot in a random direction.
31:26
You want to stop, assess, learn and adjust.
31:30
And to me, that’s, you know, that’s why I don’t like the word failure.
31:36
To me, it’s like, yeah, we lose.
31:37
We’ll lose a deal that’s necessary failing.
31:40
Yeah, we didn’t hit our quota or, you know, that’s going to affect our quota potentially.
31:45
We have to find something else to replace that.
31:47
That’s fine.
31:48
That’s our world, right?
31:50
You know, but it’s, it’s learning, it’s assessing, it’s pivoting when you need to.
31:55
It’s being able to recognize it and adjust.
31:58
To me, that’s what’s key for sure.
32:01
You go back to the sports analogy, right?
32:03
With baseball, it’s like you’ve got a whole season to play, you know, So if, if you lose today, you lose tomorrow.
32:08
Now I’m from Chicago and this year, dude, I I don’t really watch sports too much anymore.
32:12
Ever since the Bulls won their second three peat, you know, it just hasn’t been the greatest in Chicago, except a few here here in their years.
32:19
But this year, I mean, the White Sox were like the the worst team ever, Like literally like record holders now for the worst baseball team like 100 years.
32:28
It it was rough, bro, Really, really rough.
32:30
And I didn’t watch a single game, you know, and apparently not many Chicagoans did either just because of how bad they were doing.
32:36
But in something like that, it’s like I kept looking and it’s like, where’s the adjustment, right.
32:42
You know, like you’re this far into it.
32:43
Why do you keep sucking so bad?
32:46
You know?
32:46
And then there’s a lot of things that fall into it with this, of course, because there’s not enough money getting put in there to, you know, get the right ball players and all that.
32:53
But then, you know, I watched an old movie that I hadn’t seen before, Moneyball during the season with Brad Pitt.
32:58
Yeah.
32:59
And I’m like, why don’t they do this?
33:01
You know, it’s like this guy, It’s like, try something.
33:04
Exactly.
33:05
There’s got to be something different that takes place, you know?
33:08
But then, you know, if you’re 20 games into a 100 game season or if you’re playing football because there’s only, you know, double digits, that’s it for the for the games.
33:15
It’s like you only have so much time to make an adjustment before you reach the end of that.
33:21
And this is back to that temporary set back or permanent defeat.
33:24
If your season’s over and you’re not in the World Series, bro, that’s a permanent defeat.
33:30
You’re done.
33:31
You know exactly that, that that’s it, right?
33:34
So while you have what you’re saying, while you still have the affordability of time to adjust and, and recognize that a, a good friend of mine, he’s an investor in the company too, said one time, and I can’t remember what it was about.
33:48
It wasn’t to me, but it was in a group here.
33:50
He’s like, well, if you keep banging your head against the wall, it’s still going to hurt.
33:53
You know, it’s like, it’s the common sense, you know?
33:57
So instead of like, oh, man.
33:59
But then that gets into victimhood and everything else.
34:01
But it’s like, you know, yeah, for sure.
34:03
And I’m not going to go down that route.
34:04
There’s a lot that’s talked about in today’s culture around that too.
34:08
And you know, the mentality of a victim, but I think that’s glamorized now too.
34:13
Shifting topics again, CRM.
34:15
Do you love it or do you hate it?
34:17
Oh, geez, I, I, I have a love hate relationship with it.
34:23
And I don’t think there’s any really good tool out there that exists to really help through organic sales.
34:31
Now, I, I will say this, if it’s ACRMI think every salesperson needs to keep track of their activities, you know, in a way, even if it’s just for themselves.
34:45
Because I mean, so many opportunities, so many prospects, so many stages of the deal, A human brain can only handle so much.
34:51
You only have a certain amount of bandwidth.
34:53
If a deal gets pushed off for three months, you know, you’re never going to remember what that last conversation was unless you took some notes somewhere, you know?
35:03
And it’s great because CRMS are supposed to help you live in there, you know, and do all that.
35:08
But then it gets this word glamorized today.
35:12
This is it just being that way.
35:13
It’s like everybody thinks at least in sales or in big corporations, like that’s the answer to everything.
35:20
And I’ve seen it overuse where it’s like, well, it’s not in there, you know, so it’s, it’s not going to happen.
35:25
I need you to update your pipeline and the sales managers just I need you to update your pipeline.
35:29
I need you to update your pipeline.
35:30
That’s the only thing that they care about.
35:32
That’s it because they’re they don’t know how to manage, dude.
35:36
They don’t know how to lead.
35:36
They’re not they don’t even have a vision for their team with the exception of I want to be able to see that stuff in there.
35:43
And this, you know, because this is what my boss is telling me to do.
35:46
It’s just checking that box done.
35:48
Exactly.
35:49
If you’re going to use it, use it to help you stay on top of your activities that you should be doing as a salesperson, sure, I love it.
35:59
If not, there’s no reason for it to exist.
36:02
No, I agree.
36:03
To me, I tell these people all the time, I mean, I’ve been implementing CRM for a very long time now.
36:08
And I tell people, look all the time, this is a tool.
36:11
It needs to be treated as such.
36:13
So how am I going to best leverage this tool to accomplish my goal, which is I’m trying to sell more.
36:21
I’m trying to build better relationships with my customers so I can maximize the benefits I’m delivering to them.
36:27
And while I’m doing that, I’m maximizing the revenue impact for my company.
36:32
It’s a tool and it, and it’s meant to be that way.
36:35
And unfortunately, so often it’s not.
36:37
I know it’s, it’s a, you say this all the time.
36:41
It’s that 2000 ton anchor you’re dragging behind you totally.
36:46
And then it just becomes an excuse for for poor management, poor leadership to be able to eliminate what might be some good talent because they don’t have the skill set to even pour into those individuals to begin with.
36:58
Right, right.
36:59
And I love what you said earlier too, about I just did a presentation at a user conference on advanced dashboarding for sales.
37:10
And I made the comment that, you know, if you, if you really understand your business, there’s a very limited number, a set of numbers.
37:20
Keep the eyes that you need to know, are we on track or not, you know, 3 to 5 numbers, you know, are we healthy or not?
37:28
And maybe it’s two, you know, we talked about that, that, you know, if like a McDonald’s, your drive through or any kind of fast food restaurant, you have two numbers.
37:37
How quickly are we turning our orders and what’s the average order size?
37:42
I love that because that’s any other business.
37:45
If you know those numbers and CRM is feeding those numbers and everybody has visibility of those numbers, you’re keeping people in line and focused on what goal where they should be driving towards.
37:58
It’s so often I don’t see that.
38:00
I know.
38:01
Total agreement, man.
38:02
Yeah, we’re at our time here.
38:05
We went a little bit long, but that’s it goes by so fast when we’re having a great conversation.
38:10
I wish we could keep talking longer.
38:12
Rick, I really appreciate you coming on the show.
38:14
My pleasure to reach out and connect with you.
38:17
If they want to just learn more about all the different things you’re doing or if they just want to connect and do business with you, what’s the best way for them to do that?
38:26
Yeah, follow me.
38:28
LinkedIn and Instagram are my two biggest platforms, especially Instagram.
38:33
You can DM me there.
38:33
There’s so much business that even happens there nowadays too, you know, And then it’s vice versa.
38:38
But LinkedIn, everything is Mr.
38:39
Rick Jordan.
38:40
Mr.
38:40
Rick Jordan, that’s awesome.
38:42
If you didn’t get that, that’s OK to be in our show notes.
38:45
You can get that at impellercrm.com/sales Lead Dog where you’ll get show notes for this episode as well.
38:51
Our hundred plus episodes of sales Lead dog.
38:54
Be sure to check that out and subscribe so you get all their future episodes.
38:57
Rick, this has been awesome.
38:59
It’s so much fun for me every episode I do.
39:01
And this, this definitely was a great fun episode for me.
39:05
But I really appreciate you giving me this gift of your time and welcome to the Sales Lead Dog pack.
39:12
Thank you, brother.
39:15
As we end this discussion on Sales Lead Dog, be sure to subscribe to catch all our episodes on social media.
39:23
Follow us on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram.
39:26
Watch the videos on YouTube and you can also find our episodes on our website at impellercrm.com/sales Lead Dog.
39:36
The Sales Lead Dog is supported by Impeller CRM, delivering objectively better CRM for business guaranteed.
