Podcast

Cumulative Advantage – Mark Schaefer

To succeed and stand out in this very busy world requires more than just greatness, it takes momentum. This is what Mark’s new book is trying to teach us.

The highlight of this episode is centered on his new best-selling book, Cumulative Advantage. Listen to this podcast now and learn what inspired him to write the book, what the book is all about, and how it can help an individual in succeeding even without having safety nets or having millions, just pure momentum!

Mark W. Schaefer is a globally-recognized author, speaker, podcaster, and business consultant who blogs at {grow} — one of the top five marketing blogs in the world. Mark is the top 10 most re-tweeted marketing authorities in the world. He was also listed as one of the Top 10 authorities on Social Selling by Forbes.

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Transcript:

Wed, 3/31 12:58PM • 1:01:18 

SUMMARY KEYWORDS 
book, people, momentum, marketing, create, idea, talk, advantage, waffle iron, important, big, called, happen, overnight success, thought, world, oprah, career, moment, clubhouse 

SPEAKERS 
Mark Schaefer, Christopher Smith 

Intro 
Welcome to the Sales Lead Dog Podcast hosted by CRM technology and sales process expert Christopher Smith, talking with sales leaders that have separated themselves from the rest of the pack. Listen to find out how the best of the best achieve success with their team and CRM technology. And remember, unless you are the lead dog, the view never changes. 

Christopher Smith   
Welcome to Sales Lead Dog. Today we have a very special guest, Mark Schaefer. Mark is a globally recognized keynote speaker, educator, consultant, and author of numerous books. His blog Grow is one of the top marketing blogs in the world. Mark also serves as the Chief Operating Officer of B Squared Media. He is a faculty member of the Graduate Studies program of my alma mater Rutgers University. Be sure to purchase his most recent book, which we’re going to talk about today, “Cumulative Advantage,” available on Amazon. Mark, we are very lucky and appreciative to have you here on Sales Lead Dog. Welcome to the show. 

Mark Schaefer   
Thank you. This is, this is my first time on your show, so it’s pretty exciting for me. 

Christopher Smith   
I’m hoping to have you back. You have a lot of books we can talk about. 

Mark Schaefer   
That’s right. Oh, I have a lot to say. 

Christopher Smith   
A lot of good stuff to say. “Cumulative Advantage,” what was your inspiration for writing the book? 

Mark Schaefer   
Well, it, as I examine my career, at least over the last 10 years, it’s been focused really on one thing: how do we stand out in this world? I think this is the thing that most sales people, marketing people, business owners are obsessed with today, or they should be. How can we be heard? How can we be seen, how can we be found? And the problem is it’s getting increasingly difficult. Chris, I just saw, like last week that the amount of content published on LinkedIn has doubled since the pandemic started in March. So if you thought it was hard to stand out before, it’s even harder to stand out now. And the reality is that even if we’re doing our best work, even if we’re great, there’s a very good chance we’re going to be buried. And so this is, this is really what I’ve been working on and studying for the last 10 years. And I think we’re at the point now where we need to look at, if we, if we’re leveling out, how do we get to that next level? How do we get seen at this next level? And I think at least part of the answer is this idea of momentum. How do we build momentum? So I went down this rabbit hole to figure out what, what is this about? What do you do? And it took lots of twists and turns, but it really led to some seminal research that was conducted in the 1960s and by a very famous sociologist, named Robert Merton, I’m sure nobody’s heard of him because who can really know any famous sociologist, but he’s very very well known, but his work, really hasn’t been applied in very practical ways to humans and real people and real businesses. And so that was my journey is to go down this rabbit hole of what is really the system of momentum, what is the pattern of momentum, and how do we apply this in our businesses. 

Christopher Smith   
Yeah, you start off your book by talking about you contrast yourself, which I thought was very clever and enjoyable, you contrast yourself with Tim Ferriss, can you tell us about that? 

Mark Schaefer   
Well, Chris, as I was doing research for the book, I was looking for people who like started with no advantage, who just seem like really improbable successes, and I was reading biographies and somehow, Tim Ferriss came to mind, probably because he’s everywhere. And if you’re not familiar with Tim, he wrote a best-selling book, New York Times bestseller called “The Four Hour Workweek.” He is now a top VC, angel investor. He has a top podcast, he’s written three or four more best-selling books, and literally everything this guy touches to gold. But if you look at where he was when he wrote the first book, and I’m not saying anything Tim hasn’t said himself because he’s been very very honest and transparent about his life and career but, I mean that guy had psychological problems and physical problems and he had financial problems and he was, you know, burned out. He talked about even thinking about committing suicide, and then he lost his girl. And he basically chucked everything, and went to Europe and traveled around Europe, trying to figure things out and while he was there he had the idea for this book, which was rejected by 26 publishers. Now, if you can imagine from that point, 10 years later, he’s hanging out with Lebron James and Hugh Jackman and Oprah. It just seems impossible. What happened to this guy. And it’s probably no coincidence that what he did, what propelled his momentum matches up exactly with what this research shows and what my own original research shows that he, that he made certain good decisions, kind of followed this path, I talked about these five real kind of stepping stones toward momentum in the book, and that’s, that’s how it happened for Tim, that’s how it happened for me. And I think the great promise of this book is hope. That there’s nothing in this book that anybody couldn’t do. You don’t need to be rich, you don’t need to have a, you know, a Rutger’s education, let’s just say it right, it’s a great school, or an Ivy League education, that many of the case studies in this book were people who really started with nothing. They started in poverty and built themselves into into really great careers and having great businesses. 

Christopher Smith   
The title of the book is “Cumulative Advantage.” What is cumulative advantage? 

Mark Schaefer   
Well, this comes from this research that Merton did, and the his famous first paper was called the Matthew Effect. And what he was trying to prove, really, and he did this by studying Nobel Prize winners, was that there’s this momentum that builds he says the rich get rich and the poor get poor because once you build that momentum, you just keep on going. And over time, this concept was, was, sort of, it took on this new name of cumulative advantage and it was applied to sports and entertainment and technology and business and almost every kind of field, and it showed that once you start with some small advantage. If you play your cards right, you can create this unstoppable momentum. Now, the example that that’s used in, in sociology is a bank account. It’s a simple one to understand. If someone has $1,000 and another person has $10,000, on day one, there’s a $9,000 difference. If they both get a 5% interest rate, a level playing field quote unquote. In five years, that difference will be $15,000, and the gap will continue to grow. Now, it doesn’t have to be money. This has been applied to any sort of thing. And one of the best examples I think, is Bill Gates. Now Bill Gates didn’t grow up, you know, he didn’t have a fancy education. He didn’t grew up in a wealthy family but here’s what he had when he was a teenager, he had access to early computer prototypes that nobody else had. He was coding before anybody else. Now, it wasn’t just an idea. He pursued that curiosity and that is an important point. It’s not just about having an idea, momentum has to begin by pursuing that that idea by, by creating really a quest of this of this initial advantage. 

Christopher Smith   
Yep. Now you break it down into five factors. The first is finding an initial advantage. Can you talk about that a bit? 

Mark Schaefer   
I think this is one of the eye opening things in the book for most people. And what I show, and again, all of this is is is not my idea, it’s backed up with with a lot of research from very smart people. And in this case, There was, there’s this great researcher named Franz Johansson, he’s a he’s an educator and an author, and he wrote a book called “The Click Moment,” which sounds like an SEO book, but it’s a lot more interesting than that. What he shows, Chris, is that almost every successful person and successful business started with a random event. And I think the Bill Gates example is kind of one thing, right. There’s a fun case study in the book that there was a track coach, you know, all his high school athletes had to wear these metal spikes. And that’s sort of a toxic combination metal spikes and teenagers. And so he was watching his wife make breakfast one day and she was pulling waffles out of her waffle iron. And without saying a word, a word, he ran back to his high school chemistry lab, got some latex, poured it in the waffle iron, lifted it out and said, “That could be a tennis shoe.” Fun fact, that beat-up old rusted waffle iron is now displayed like a museum piece in the headquarters of Nike. Yeah, that’s how Nike started. Bill Bowerman, he was a track coach, he was one of the founders of Nike, because he watched his wife making waffles and and and you know now, it’s it’s one of the best brands in the world. And, and what what Johansson shows is that behind almost every person, and I can give lots of examples of myself, that you, you’re in a new place and you see something that doesn’t make sense, or you have a conversation at a conference that sparks a new idea with someone, or you read a book, and it unleashes something in you that you didn’t know that was there. So, these spark moments, these create the initial advantage that begins momentum. 

Christopher Smith   
And you talk about that in your book about your click moment at South by Southwest, can you tell us about that.  

Mark Schaefer   
Well, I’ve had a lot of a lot of click moments, but the the first book I wrote the first book on influencer marketing. It came out in 2012 and, and that really changed a lot for me, because it sort of thrust me onto the national stage. Now, how did that happen. Back then, these new companies were beginning that said we can measure your influence based on your activity on social media, and people hated this idea, hated this idea, and I was, I was a skeptic, but I was, I got I went down the rabbit hole and started studying these things and I had a, I started to understand that there might be something there. So, the founder of one of these companies was talking at South by Southwest, and I thought, well I’d like to talk to this guy and learn some more and interview him for my blog. And so I waited in line, probably 30 minutes, he was very gracious, he agreed to talk to me. And during our conversation, a light bulb went off that really changed my life. And it was this. People said, Look, I’m influential in my office. I’m influential at church, I’m influential in my family, you can’t measure my influence. And here was the light bulb that went off. Influence on the internet is determined by who can move content, who can move ideas. That’s if you can move ideas, you move influence. If you can do it a lot, you’re more influential. And I realized, wait a minute, he can measure influence, and we are on the brink of an entirely new marketing opportunity. The power is shifting in our world from Madison Avenue and Wall Street to Main Street, to you and me. Anybody with a keyboard and a WiFi connection is going to be able to create content and have influence in this world, and the images lit up like a runway at O’Hare for me. And that’s, that, that became the book, and it was a best selling book, it hit number one on on Amazon. I got into the national press and really it was from that one conversation that it launched me into a whole new level of momentum. 

Christopher Smith   
Let’s talk about the elements around that. You talk about this in the book, and you use several stories to tell this, but you kind of boil it down on one point with the statement of curiosity matching to customer needs. 

Mark Schaefer   
Yeah. Well, the next step in this process is really what I call the scene, and the scene is a shift some shift that creates an opportunity, a fracture in the status quo. It creates new unmet or underserved customer needs, like a pandemic. Right? This is a biggest shift in our lives, this is the biggest fracture in the status quo, we will never experience less hope, and with that comes opportunity, it’s sure, it’s sad, it’s tragic. Everyone is suffering. But I predicted last March that we would have more startups in America than any time in our history, and that has come true. We’ve lost many businesses, but we’ve had more startups than the business losses. Why? Because we, we have new ways to learn and work and educate our kids, and entertain ourselves and relate and date and eat, and everything. And it’s just created this giant fracture and, and people what? They have a some core competency, some initial advantage that they can apply to that opening, and then you go through that opening as fast as you can, as large as you can, and fill that space, and that’s what creates a great business. Next, yeah go ahead. 

Christopher Smith   
I’m sorry. Didn’t mean to step on you. You talk about that in terms of speed, time, and space. Yeah, with speed being I think very important to that, correct? 

Mark Schaefer   
It’s, it’s well you know it’s, it’s, it’s essential. You know, I was talking yesterday, I do a lot of coaching and consulting with entrepreneurs and people doing startups, and this guy was starting this new business, and he really had a good idea. But the problem is big tech companies could easily copy his idea. It would be difficult to get patents on what he was doing, and even if he did, there would be ways around it so I mean, what we talked about is his next step is he’s got to get some money. He’s got to get money and marketing support and he’s got to burst through that scene so fast, so big and dominate. We see this happening now, for example, with clubhouse, right? Clubhouse, what’s the scene? People are isolated, people are lonely and bored, they need a place to talk. Clubhouse, right? See, initial advantage, burst through a scene. Now, guess what? Twitter is working on a clubhouse, they, it’s called Spaces, it’s out. Facebook is working on a clubhouse. LinkedIn just announced they’re creating a clubhouse right, it’s not rocket science. Clubhouse just got an infusion of cash. They have got to, they’ve got to, you know just blow everybody out, or they’re going to lose, right, so that’s what they’re doing right now. Space, speed, and time. The time is right. The space is open, and now they need the speed, and they need to go through and blow through that thing, and dominate, or they’re going to lose out. 

Christopher Smith   
Yeah, you talked about the timing aspect where the idea of meets ideal timing. 

Mark Schaefer   
Yeah. 

Christopher Smith   
I’ve read a lot of books and I’ve actually been involved in some companies where great idea, but the timing was off. 

Mark Schaefer   
Oh yeah. 

Christopher Smith   
How, how do you, I mean are there clues or indicators that you should be looking for around timing? 

Mark Schaefer   
Well the good news is, you know, when I was growing up in business. To test the market, you had to make something. Right, there was no internet. You had to have equipment in your garage, and you probably needed to have marketing support and finance support and all this stuff. Today, you can test almost anything on the internet, even a physical product, you can go, you know, you can go to crowdsourcing, you can go to all these different places and test your ideas. And so you can create, as Eric Reese calls a minimal viable product and test, test, test. So timing is crucially important, but it’s not as big of an obstacle, as it was 30 years ago, so that’s the good news. We also have access to almost unlimited information and research. We have simple ways, even to access, you know you can do a survey with, you know 5000 people for like $99. So there’s there’s lots and lots of different ways to test things. So timing isn’t, isn’t the hurdle that it used to be, however it’s something I still struggled with in this book because it is so important and so, you know, I didn’t want to say, oh well it’s just random you got to take your best shot. So I did focus on what can you do to really prepare yourself to make sure you’re focused and you’re ready to burst through that scene. And I focused on this idea of worthiness is, you know, is the idea worthy of an audience most of all. You know, I ran into this the other day. This fella, I mean he had an amazing, he had an idea, you love this idea. There was no way this thing was going to fly. He was way, way too late. The audience was gone. And, but he just, he can’t give it up, right, because it’s about ego, not about customers? So is it worthy of the customer, are you really listening? Is it worthy of the battle? There’s, you know, it’s hard launching a new idea, it’s hard launching a new product, it takes a lot of sacrifice. So I walk people through questions really to help them be prepared for that scene. 

Christopher Smith   
That’s one thing I loved about your book is that you don’t just talk about these, you really break it down for people with those questions and examples and things you really need to think about. Moving past the scene, you, the next phase is the sonic boom. Tell us about your first sonic boom? 

Mark Schaefer   
My first sonic boom. Well, my yeah my first sonic boom. Well, let’s first of all let’s talk what is a sonic boom. 

Christopher Smith   
Yeah, let’s start there, that’s probably better. 

Mark Schaefer   
So I think, for, if you’re a marketing geek like I am, this, this is the most fun part of the book, because it, it brings out some new ideas and some new research about how massive awareness really, really works. And it talks about product launches, marketing, publicity, it’s not a 12-month campaign, you really need to focus on a couple of weeks, and you need to just, there’s there’s specific ideas in the book, but you need to capture as much of the conversation in your industry, as you can for a concentrated period of time. So I was really fortunate. And when, when my first book came out, I, I was, I had a PR team behind me at McGraw Hill and so we were, you know, I was doing a number of different interviews and I was new in New York and I was kind of going, you know, right right down Fifth Avenue and Broadway, hitting all the big media outlets, you know, Wall Street Journal and Bloomberg. And then I literally I was walking in Chelsea, I was walking back to my hotel, I will never forget the exact spot I was standing in, and the editor from from McGraw Hill said at 6am tomorrow, a limo is going to pick you up and take you to CBS, you’re going to be on the CBS Morning News. And I was terrified. 

Christopher Smith   
Oh yeah. 

Mark Schaefer   
I think it was like, I think it was like 6 million viewers, or something like that. And so I steeled myself, and thought here is the only goal you have for the next, you know, 12 hours: do not embarrass your wife. So, so here I was, and one of the interviewers was was Gayle King, and who was Oprah’s best friend, I have this whimsical little race in the book Between me and Tim Ferriss about who’s going to meet Oprah. And he, Gayle King comes into the greenroom with my book filled with post-it notes. I actually still have the picture, I should have put it in the book. Gail says Mr. Schaefer, I loved your book, you, they give us these business books that were supposed to read. I hate these books. I loved your book, and it was all highlighted and she had post-it notes, and we had a great interview and I was one degree away from Oprah, that was my big shot. 

Christopher Smith   
So close. 

Mark Schaefer   
I you know, there I was, I got in, in, you know, is probably what a five minute interview, seven minutes maybe. And I was in front of 6 million people, and boom, I’m number one on Amazon. I think I was number one in the marketing category for, I don’t know maybe five or six weeks, so I thought it was easy. I thought, oh boy, it’s not that hard. Yeah, you write a book and boom, here I am number one on Amazon and. But that really was, I mean it’s just like, it’s just a concentrated amount of awareness.  

Christopher Smith   
Right, right. The next phase that you talk about is personal velocity. You know, it’s really for most of us that are going through this, we’re going to be starting from a standstill. So for that reality, how do we overcome cumulative advantage? 

Mark Schaefer   
Yeah, well this this is in a way it ties to one of my earlier books called “Known” about how to build your personal brand. One of the things I emphasize in all my writing is that there, there’s really no overnight success. And I tell this story in the book that was had a big impact on me. I don’t know maybe it was six or seven years ago now. I got to go backstage and I got to meet the Black Keys. This is well-known rock band, one of the biggest rock bands in the world now, but at that time, they were still playing clubs that held maybe 1000 people and, but they had just released a new album that was really taking off. And they had certainly hit a new level of momentum. And this was at a time when I was building my own personal brand. So there was definitely a parallel here. So I sat down and I was talking to the drummer I said, “What was this catalytic moment? What took you to this next level of momentum?” He said there wasn’t one. He said, “Look, we’ve been touring for seven years. We’ve had seven albums.” Yeah, and every album is a little bit better than the last one, every tour is a little bit better than the last one, I think it was two and a half years later, after I had that interview with them. They sell, sold out, Madison Square Garden in 15 minutes. So, and everybody said, “Oh my gosh, you know, they came out of nowhere.” No, they had been working for nine years. You know, I write books, popular books that people buy. You know what, I blogged 650 weeks in a row without missing. I’ve had a podcast for nine years and nine years, never missed an episode, and always delivering excellent content. There’s always one thing in my mind, I will never let you down with any content I produce. It’s, you know great, consistent content, great, consistent content, engagement, connection, being generous, being helpful, all the things you certainly teach as well, Chris. There’s no overnight success, and consistency is more important than than genius. 

Christopher Smith   
Yeah. You hear that all the time like when I, especially in music. I love that story because he talked about a lot of bands like that, that like Hootie & The Blowfish was one of my favorites when I was in college and whatnot. They had this very similar story where they spent a lot of time touring and playing the same songs for years, it became their first big album. You talk about reaching out and reaching up in this, that basically we don’t do it alone. How do you reach out and reach up? 

Mark Schaefer   
I think that’s one of the most fun parts of the book. I’ve got some wonderful stories in there from people that have really made mentoring sort of an art and science. And what I do in this chapter is, is challenge people to first of all, reimagine what this is supposed to be. The traditional view of mentoring is a long term relationship and with with a teacher, someone who teaches you. And I just think that’s sort of an anachronistic view of what can happen today. I think where momentum really occurs is when a person creates a new opportunity for you that you couldn’t do on your own. In fact, this is the best and fastest way to get momentum is is having someone make an introduction for you, give you some insight, even encourage you can create a new level of momentum. And yes, this is important, reaching up, reaching out. It’s also something we can also do as individuals. If we are in a good position to share our, our status really, share our place in the world and share it with others and make introductions, it’s, it’s really, really powerful.  

Christopher Smith   
Yeah. You know when I ask my guests on Sales Lead Dog. First question is always what are the three things that have most contributed to your success. The most common answer I get is they were mentored by someone that really helped propel their career, and really helped.  

Mark Schaefer   
I wish I would have talked to you six months ago, I would have put you in the book, because that’s a great quote. That’s so powerful. 

Christopher Smith   
Oh yeah, yeah, it is, It’s so consistent, you know probably 8/10 times that, you know there’s a mentoring component in there. And so I always like to ask that question, if I want to be mentored, what’s the wrong way to go about that? 

Mark Schaefer   
Well, number one, going to someone without a plan, going something, going into something without really knowing who that person is, asking them if, if you can pick their brain. That is a sure sign of, I will say no. It’s just, it’s just lazy, it’s lazy. It’s basically saying, you know, I want your time for free, and I don’t respect you.  

Christopher Smith   
Right.  

Mark Schaefer   
I think the key idea is to look for some mutually beneficial arrangement. You know, there’s one of the people I highlight in this book is a wonderful, wonderful man, a great intellect, Mathew Sweezey. He is the sort of the marketing futurist of salesforce.com. And he talks about really studying people, looking at them from every angle and getting to know them so well, that you think of what are the questions these people are dying to be asked that no one is asking them, and, and illustrating to this person that look, here’s something I can bring to the party, too. So it’s really not, it’s thinking about what is the value I can add to this person. What is, what is the special connection that we can have this mutually beneficial. And it’s not, it doesn’t have to be a year-long thing where I meet you for an hour every month. Those days are just over. Nobody needs another full-time, and you know a full-time, unpaid job being your mentor. But look, I’m happy to answer a question every once in a while or, you know, introduce you to somebody that I know to get you, to get you moving in the right direction.  

Christopher Smith   
Yeah, I think that’s so important that if you’re going to reach out to someone and say, “Hey, I want your help, but I’m not just going to take from you, you know, that it is going to be a reciprocal relationship, I’m gonna do what I can to show you I value your time, and I appreciate your time.” I think that’s so important. 

Mark Schaefer   
Yeah, yeah, I mean there was a young, young man that reached out to me. He was a college student, and any, and he said, I want to be like you someday, and he went down and listed all these bullet points, I mean this guy had to like really, really study because he got into some pretty obscure things, it’s like, wow, this young guy has really done his work. Of course, of course I’m gonna, I’m gonna help him and hear what he has to say.  

Christopher Smith   
Yeah. You, you really have had a very interesting journey. You talk about that in your book, you know, you touch on certain points in your career. Kind of looking back over your career, do you have any favorite moments? Things that really stand out? 

Mark Schaefer   
Yeah. You know, it actually, there was, there’s one thing I’ll never forget. I think it was about, okay, it was 2013. I gave a lecture at Oxford University.  

Christopher Smith   
Wow.  

Mark Schaefer   
And it was like Hogwarts. 

Christopher Smith   
Right. Did you have the correct robe on, you know, correct house or whatever?  

Mark Schaefer   
Yeah, I guess so. And they brought in three different marketing classes and their professors in this auditorium, and I gave a three hour talk where there was an intermission in the, in the middle. And, you know, so I gave there for, and, and at the intermission, one of the professors came up to me and he said, Mr. Schaefer, not only am I learning a lot about marketing today, you’re also showing me how to give a great presentation. And that night I took the train home, and I just wished there was some way I could bottle up that feeling. Because if you think about where I started in my life, very humble, humble beginnings, you know, I, we had eight people, stuffed into a two bedroom house. You know, one bathroom with eight people and, you know, really, really humble beginnings. And here I am at Oxford, and I just thought that the ride home on the train last night on that night was, it just had this glow, this euphoria that wow, what a moment, what a moment for me that I’ll that I’ll never forget, so that was something that truly was special for me. 

Christopher Smith   
Yeah, I you know, I love stories like that my, my father, who is been a big mentor to me, started out his working world as a ditch digger basically for the local railroad. Eventually he got, he worked into an office job as a draftsman, but he became friends with the secretary of, you know, one of the executives, and at lunch one day they found out that hey, they’re gonna buy their first computer, and they need people to work on this computer. And so he asked like, what do I need to do to get that job. And because he had that relationship and she made that introduction and said, “Hey, I really think you need to talk to this guy, you know, he’s got potential.” They gave him the opportunity. He ended his career as an Executive Vice President at Citibank leading major technology groups, starting out as a ditch digger at a railroad.  

Mark Schaefer   
What a man to be admired. 

Christopher Smith   
Oh yeah. 

Mark Schaefer   
I mean he, that that is a man right there, that burst through every scene that was in front of him. 

Christopher Smith   
Yep, yep, he really did. And it was also, you talk about the consistency of purpose. That’s, when I look back at his career and listen to his stories, that was it. He was incredibly consistent and always delivering, always over-delivering and definitely was not an overnight success, but he made it happen. 

Mark Schaefer   
Yes, absolutely. And you know I mentioned, you know my attitude when I create content and serve my audience, I said, “You know I’ll never let you down.” That’s exactly the way your dad worked, too. What a wonderful story. Thank you for sharing that. 

Christopher Smith   
You bet. Mark, it has been absolutely tremendous having you on Sales Lead Dog, I really enjoyed this time. If people want to reach out and connect with you, they want to get the book, it’s available on Amazon along with all your other books. But if they want to connect with you and find out more about you or or more about what you’re doing, what’s the best way for that to happen. 

Mark Schaefer   
That’s easy, it’s hard to remember how to spell Schaefer but it’s easy to remember, businesses grow. You can remember businessesgrow.com. You can find my blog, it’s free to subscribe to, I give away all my best ideas. My, I’ve got the Marketing Companion podcast, it’s in the top 1% of all, podcasts on iTunes, and my social media links, my books, all all is at businessesgrow.com.  

Christopher Smith   
Yep, that’s terrific. Thank you again for coming on Sales Lead Dog, it’s been great. 

Mark Schaefer   
Thank you so much. It’s been a delight. 

Outro 
As we end this discussion on Sales Lead Dog, be sure to subscribe to catch all our episodes on social media. Follow us on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. Watch the videos on YouTube, and you can also find our episodes on our website at Empellorcrm.com/salesleaddog. Sales Lead Dog is supported by Empellor CRM, delivering objectively better CRM for business guaranteed. 

Quotes

  • “And so that was my journey is to go down this rabbit hole of what is really the system of momentum, what is the pattern of momentum, and how do we apply this in our businesses.” (15:17-15:30) 
  • “It’s not just about having an idea, momentum has to begin by pursuing that that idea by, by creating really a quest of this of this initial advantage.” (20:37-20:50)
  • “And here was the light bulb that went off influence on the internet is determined by who can move content, who can move ideas. That’s if you can move, ideas, you move influence if you can do it a lot you’re more influential, and I realized, wait a minute. He can measure influence, and we are on the brink of an entirely new marketing opportunity.” (24:53-25:22) 

Links

Mark Schaefer: LinkedIn
Business Grow Website

Empellor CRM Website
[email protected]
Empellor CRM LinkedIn