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Welcome to the Sales Lead Dog podcast hosted by CRM technology and sales process expert Christopher Smith.
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Talking with sales leaders that have separated themselves from the rest of the pack.
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Listen to find out how the best of the best achieved success with their team and CRM technology.
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And remember, unless you were the lead dog, the view never changes.
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Welcome to sales lead dog.
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My guest today is Cami Thompson.
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Cami is key account manager for Vervent.
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Cami, welcome to sales lead dog.
0:38
Thanks, Chris.
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I’m excited to be here.
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I’m excited to talk with you.
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Tell me a bit about Vervent.
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I’m happy to do it.
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So in Full disclosure, I’ve been with Vervent now since August 1st.
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I’m pretty excited about it.
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One of the things that really drove me was the energy.
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When I met the the CEO, we just connected right away.
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He had me meet his CRO and we we were just kindred spirits, very customer centric, employee centric organization, which is really what excites me very long term vision.
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Fervent Formas Lee was known as OST in the market.
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Original headquarters was in Grand Rapids rebranded back in 2023.
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And really our focus.
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I mean, we, we do, we kind of are an end to end solution from from the aspect that we do.
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We, we are a bar.
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We can basically stand up and and resell anything in the data center.
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We do a lot of digital transformation.
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I would say our real strength and core strength is that consulting really being going in able to go into clients and really kind of not help them from how to license and set this up all the way to implementing it to the the managed service we can support on the back end.
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A lot of focus on migrations, ERP, digital transformation, AI, All of these are are strengths of ours.
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So it’s very fun to be in here because I love to solve problems.
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I can go into a client got great people, we can, we can solve people’s problems.
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That’s what it’s all about.
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You know, I’ve been doing what I do with CRM for almost 20 years now.
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Nobody buys CRM because they love CRM.
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They buy it because they’re looking for an outcome.
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You know that that, that it’s a tool, right?
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And it’s not good enough to just sell technology.
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You have to sell solutions to problems, you have to give them a path forward to help them achieve whatever strategically they’re trying to do with the business.
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So it sounds like you guys are totally aligned with that.
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Yeah, it’s a business.
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You’re solving business problems.
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Obviously our our strength is in the technology and how to leverage technology to support business challenges.
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But people do not want to be focusing on, to your point, CRMS are having to think so hard about their, their, their upgrade or their migration.
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They want to be focused on their business, their product and how they make money and how they become relevant in their market.
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So that is how we kind of approach it is from that perspective, understanding what they need to, to really differentiate themselves, how we can support that and that that’s exciting to me.
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Oh yeah, I love that.
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That’s, it’s completely aligned with what we do.
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And yeah, you’re, you’re, you’re singing to the choir, speaking to the choir, right.
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So, so when you look back over your career, you’ve had a, a, a good career so far.
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So be sure to check out her her LinkedIn profile if you get a chance.
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What are the three things?
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If you had to really sum it up, boil it down to three things that have really driven and LED to your success.
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What are those three things?
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Well, there’s a there’s a couple things.
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One thing I never go in.
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I never think, oh, you can’t do that.
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I don’t, I don’t sit there and and really downplay myself.
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I’ll give you a quick example.
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I moved to Atlanta.
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I didn’t know a lot of people.
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I met a a friend and she’s like, oh, will you run a marathon with me?
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OK, Well, I’ve never more run more than two miles in my life.
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What I’ve said, yes, my dad calls me.
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He’s like kid, do you know how far that is?
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Sure.
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It’s like 26 some miles.
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It never occurred to me that I couldn’t do it.
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I don’t block my mind in that way.
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And that has always helped me because if you look through my career, I started off more on the business side.
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My degree is in business and marketing and I and I started off kind of in the business analyst accounting, cost accounting and I and I ended up in, in technology and that’s where I really got the, the bulk of my, my learning Two things is 1 just not being afraid to just jump in.
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2 is really being curious and 3 is really asking for feedback and being open to, to making mistakes and owning 1, I don’t know, it’s OK not to know.
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And I think when you’re vulnerable and you’re open like that.
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And I, I wasn’t an expert at it all the time, but that I, as I grew throughout my career, when I opened up to people, people want to help and that and when people help, you know, what else comes out of that is really good relationships and good partnerships.
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And so for me, that was kind of the the core theme that I think guided and there’s just been some outstanding people throughout my career that I just built relationships with and we supported each other and asked each other how, how can I help you?
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And it was reciprocated.
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And that just was really the foundation for me.
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That’s what it’s all about.
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And I love your first about just you just got to be willing to jump in.
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I started my first company when I was 23.
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My entire family, no one’s an entrepreneur in my family.
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My grandfather was, but no one else.
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Everyone is just like, go get a job and work in a corporation and whatever.
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And I’m like, I’m not doing that.
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I’m going to start my own company.
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They flat out laughed at me.
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Like, you don’t know a thing about starting a business or running a company.
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And they were spot on, right?
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I knew nothing, but that naivete is what allowed me to do it.
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Otherwise, if I really would have thought about how hard this is, I never would have done it.
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Sometimes you just got to jump on the deep end and start swimming.
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Yeah.
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And I think if you if you’re thinking, you can do it.
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I mean, it’s kind of like the marathon everybody’s like, but I did my your mind is stronger than you think, and your mind can carry some of the the rest of you along.
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And and for me, I smiled that whole marathon.
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I mean, because I I never had it in my brain that this is going to hurt.
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I didn’t, I didn’t downplay the experience.
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Yeah.
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It’s about perspective.
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I adopted the mantra very early on.
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I am never going to let what I don’t know stop me from achieving my goals because I know just with determination and focus and drive, I’ll figure it out.
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Yeah.
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I mean, that’s literally how I got into the IT side of it.
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I solved a problem.
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I was partnering with the developer.
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She just, she wasn’t in her best space.
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She couldn’t figure out.
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And she’s like, well, Cammy, if you think you can figure this interface out, here’s my book.
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I took her book, I rewrote the interface and I got invited to move to IT.
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Yeah, I’ve, I’ve been happy there ever since.
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So what was that transition like for you coming from your, your start in the business world?
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It’s probably one of my favorite things.
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I think I met this.
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So when I, when I made that transition, I went over to literally the engineering team, the implementers of our large ERP systems, and they introduced me to my new, my new manager who was on day two.
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He knew nothing about the business.
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And they said, here’s Cammy, she knows nothing about technology.
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And he grew up tech, right?
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He’s all the certifications, all this.
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And he didn’t even blink.
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He’s like, hey, and we, we, I taught him about the business because I understood all the why He taught me how to do the technology and it was and we, and we’re still friends to this day.
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I, I know his wife, his daughter, We’re we’re good friends and we helped each other and support each other throughout our careers.
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It’s it was just a great union and it really gave a lot of perspective when I was working at that organization, they leaned into very early on, this was, this was ING what I thought was great.
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They learned on learned really early on that they needed to partner with the business and not just tell the business what they needed to do.
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And that that partnership really was a great foundation for for success.
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We had some great, lot of great success stories that came out of that from a career perspective.
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Yeah, I used to implement ERP way back in another life.
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It seems so long ago.
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But it if you’re this cannot be just pure tech play.
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You have to partner with the business.
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The business needs to lead and drive it.
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Otherwise, you know, it’s the same with CRM today.
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You know, the business has to lead and drive these things.
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Technology’s the solution.
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It’s not the be all end all.
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And without the business to drive it, it’s going to be rough going.
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And, and, and on the flip side, the business needs to, you know, understand too what, what it takes, right, ’cause I think that sometimes it can’t, neither side can be, can be pushing.
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It has to be working together and, and understanding the, the different options and risks and things that come to play.
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But both parties have to come in willing to listen and, and partner together.
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That’s right.
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Yeah.
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And, and not make any assumptions like, oh, this shouldn’t be that big.
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This should be that hard, you know, you just never know.
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The devil’s in the details.
9:14
Hey, we’re taking a quick break to thank you for listening to and supporting the Sales Lead Dog podcast.
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I want to take a moment and tell you about my book, CRM Shouldn’t Suck.
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9:34
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9:42
No fluff, just real strategies that work.
9:46
So go to crmshouldntsuck.com to order your free copy right now.
9:52
That’s right, we’re giving it away.
9:55
And while you’re there, take two minutes to check out the CRM Impact Score.
10:01
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10:10
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10:14
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10:28
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10:37
OK, let’s get back to this episode of the sales lead dog podcast.
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So tell me about your transition into sales.
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What was what’s the story behind that again, you got?
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So the transition from sales was it’s, it’s interesting.
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I, I, well, I worked for Oracle briefly and that was that was, I would call it a bit on the pre sales, but I was really more on that delivery arm really partnering with, with sales there.
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And then I moved to Coherent and what was what was great about that company was I had known the CEO for a number of years, a lot of respect for him.
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And basically what I started off in delivery because delivery was my strength, right?
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I’ve done a lot of this work as far as ERP systems and so forth.
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And my experience just married really well with building relationships with clients.
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And in this organization, it was, it was you were delivering and you were also that relationship with the client.
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So almost similar to a key account manager kind of that kind of model.
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We had a smaller sales team and what he really wanted is he, he wasn’t looking for a salesperson to come in and lead the team.
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He’s looking for a leader.
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So my leadership experience, he called me and said, I think you should lead sales.
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And that was really how it, how it happened and it was, it made it, you know, the, the good part was really at the end of the day, when you’re in services, how you deliver is the core and the guts of what you do.
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So I, I already, I could speak to that.
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I, I was very passionate about our people and delivery, which helped me from a, how we presented that externally.
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And, and really I just, I came in, I, I learned a bit about how we are positioning ourselves from that aspect, learn the team.
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And then it really came down to just plain leadership right at the end of the day.
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One thing I took away from one of my previous employers, Target, they great outstanding company at building leadership.
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One of the philosophies they had when I was there and I, I assume they still have it, but don’t want to speak to them, was if you’re a good leader, a great leader, it doesn’t matter what you’re leading.
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It’s, it’s you.
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It’s, it’s really just how you inspire other people, how you listen.
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So I don’t have to be an expert in databases to lead this team.
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I, I need to have the right people with me and, and inspire them and provide and provide roof barriers, right?
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So taking that mindset and coming over to sales, I really didn’t let that intimidate me.
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Obviously, I need to understand really what is needed for my to support my team, really what my metrics are and how I understand what good looks like.
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You have to do that as a leader.
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But at the end of the day, it’s really, it’s really making sure that you inspire people, you incentivize people to support the initiative that you’re going after, whatever that strategy is.
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And in this case, it, it was, it was a lot of fun for me.
13:35
I think my, my key, the first thing I did is I had a, a team that I will, I would call them SDRS.
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They really, they were the folks that were going out and just doing that lead generation.
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Then I had the sales team and they were competing at 1st.
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And so then it was more kind of walking them through guys you are sensified to help, to support and help each other.
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You, you should be working together.
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Let’s, let’s it benefits both of you if you work together.
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And we started to build that energy and that relationship.
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And once we started to kind of bring that cohesiveness, then magic started to happen.
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It was, it was very exciting, very fun.
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So that was really kind of how I shifted over to sales.
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And then I just learned a lot through that experience as we grew the team.
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I, I think there’s a lot of benefits.
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There’s risks and downsides as well, but I think there’s a lot of benefits to come into a leadership role like that with a blank slate, You know that you’re not making any assumptions.
14:34
You’re not, you’re coming in.
14:35
Like you said earlier, I’m a listen, I’m a, I’m a talk to people and I’m a listen to really learn and identify where the issues are and how do we remove those barriers and move forward?
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Well, and I don’t think, I don’t think you can go into any role, any leadership role without listening because you come in.
14:55
I, my dad used to say when I was, when I was a kid, my, my, my sister and I are very different and my, my sister and she’s changed a bit.
15:02
She’s grown.
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So I don’t want to throw her under the bus here.
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But back then she’s like, Dad, you have to buy me jeans, right?
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I would come to my father and I’d say dad jeans happen to be on sale right now and I really need this many pairs of do us better if we bought them now.
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And I would reason with him and see it from his perspective and hear his perspective, right, not just go at it.
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It’s the same thing with leadership.
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If I just go and say, Christopher, do this, it it kind of makes you cringe, right?
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You’re not really inspired to do it.
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You’re just going to do the what you need to do to get the job done.
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You’re going to move out with your day.
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But if I get you excited about the, the why and I listen to your perspective and I say I like it, we can’t, we, we can’t do that for this reason or we can do that for this reason.
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And you feel heard and we, and it’s a team effort.
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People get excited about what they’re doing.
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They feel a part of something.
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And I think that that makes the magic.
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So you I don’t believe in ever coming in and, and not hearing people.
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Even if things aren’t working, you still get really good Nuggets when you listen to people about their perspective of, of the business and, and their role.
16:04
Oh yeah.
16:05
And, and it’s being open to learning yourself, you know, if you come in as a know it all, good luck, you know, but it’s like, it’s another great way to build that bond and the relationships between people is learning from them.
16:20
You know, it’s like, it’s what I love about this podcast is I, it’s a master class in sales and leadership.
16:25
Every time you do an episode, you know, and I come out so energized listening to the people on my on my program, you know, so now you are a runner.
16:36
I am yes.
16:37
How do you leverage that experience that just you know, we we for the listeners, you know, we did a little pre talk and she was sharing some stuff with me.
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When I say she’s a runner, she’s ******** runner.
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So how does that how do you leverage that in your role as a leader?
16:54
So there’s there’s a couple things.
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I’ll, I’ll, I’ve got a couple quick little Nuggets and I think a lot of us can make sports analogies 111 quick one.
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You know, when I was when I was helping people and motivating people and getting people to to just to just start, I had a guy once asked me, he’s like Cammy, I I keep running 5 miles.
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I can’t get beyond 5 miles.
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Can you tell me?
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Can you tell me what to do?
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Yeah, you need to run farther.
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Now I’m not going to tell you his immediate reaction to that statement.
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But but really.
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But I’m like, no, no, no.
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I said I’m not being cheeky.
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I’m what I’m telling you is I’m not saying you’re, you’re, you’ve got a mental block here.
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You just need to take it one little step.
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I don’t care if you go, you know, 2 feet over 5 miles, you’re going to break that block.
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And I guarantee you’re going to be just 7 in, just in just a couple weeks.
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And he and he called me two weeks later and said I made it to 8 because it’s the mental, it’s a mental block, right?
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It kind of goes back to that earlier conversation about if you, if you let things stop you and you put, if you put your own limits to yourself.
18:03
Yeah, you know, if you’re your own worst enemy.
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So don’t put limits on yourself.
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It’s, it’s kind of what I did.
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And and that’s what I did with running.
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So we kept breaking barriers.
18:13
So when you say I’m a so I’ve done ultras, right?
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But I, when I was, when I was really doing a lot of competitive, my, my favorite distance was 50 mile and I, I won some and it was exciting.
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And my, my dad and my sister, I could go on with stories with those two turkeys.
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They were, they were a lot of fun at these races, but they would come and watch.
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But my biggest accomplishment and it, it kind of goes back to why I love being part of teams, why I love leading teams was I had a friend and he kind of had that mental block.
18:47
I talked about one other thing I always do when I ran.
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If I said I’m doing 20 miles, I did 20 miles.
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I don’t care if I got rained on.
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I don’t care if I was hot.
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I don’t care if I had to walk.
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Part of it.
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I never let myself stop And let’s let’s there was a physical injury that prohibited.
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Why?
19:04
For exactly the reason that he was struggling.
19:07
Because if you allow yourself to do that, then then you get kind of I, I hate to use the word lazy, but you do you mentally kind of just go.
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I can just stop.
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I can just stop.
19:18
So we got out there, I, I told him I’d pace him.
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He had 100 mile race that he’d try a couple times and he, he kept not being able to do it.
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So he asked, hey Cammy, would you, would you pace me on this?
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And I said, I would absolutely love to pace you for that.
19:32
And we, we and 100 mile you’re, you’re going for a long time.
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And so they let you start about mile 40.
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And him and I ran through the night together.
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And by the way, it rained.
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And when you’re a pacer, by the way, just like a leader, you do not, you do not get to complain.
19:47
You, you are, you are smiling.
19:49
You are, you are their anchor.
19:51
You are excited.
19:52
And I was singing songs.
19:54
If people want to hear them, then you’re going to have to, you’re going to have to connect with me later.
19:59
Not going to sing here, but just keeping him going.
20:02
We got through the night.
20:03
We got, we got further along and he, he, he was ready to quit.
20:07
And I, and I said, Nope, you don’t get to quit.
20:10
You look fine.
20:12
This is all in your head.
20:13
And I said just follow my feet.
20:15
He followed my feet.
20:17
We had people pass us.
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They asked him how he’s doing and he said, you know, complaint.
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I looked at him, I said, uh, uh, next person who asks you what you’re doing, you tell them you’re doing fantastic.
20:28
So all I hear from behind me is we’re running.
20:30
I feel fantastic.
20:31
I feel fantastic.
20:32
Next thing I know, the last 7 miles about 100 mile race were the fastest.
20:37
He did the entire run.
20:39
For me personally, that was the most the the best run I ever did and the biggest success I had in my running career.
20:48
Because you know, inspiring yourself is one thing.
20:51
That’s a challenge.
20:51
We all go through it.
20:52
But when you are able to inspire somebody else to meet to, to accomplish something they did not think they could do, there is no better feeling.
21:01
And I made him.
21:02
He wanted to drag me through that finish line with him.
21:04
And I said, absolutely not because you got yourself here.
21:08
This is your win.
21:09
And his smile and just all of that energy watching him do that, it’s indescribable.
21:16
That to me is what what what excites me about about leadership.
21:20
When you’re able to, to bring somebody to that point, there’s nothing better It, it is the hardest thing I think for many of us is to get out of our own heads, to get out of our own way.
21:34
There’s 21 personal for me, like when I, I live in Colorado, we have some hills here and I, I love to ride my bike.
21:44
You get out of a hill.
21:47
If you focus on that top of the hill or how big the hill is, it makes it hard.
21:53
And what I’ve learned over the years, I focused on the three feet in front of my bike.
21:58
That’s my goal is to make it 3 feet.
22:00
And when I do that, all right, another three feet and I just keep, I just get out of my head and I focus on three feet because I know I can do 3 feet.
22:06
There’s, I don’t care how big the hill is, I can do 3 feet and I just keep, I just stay in that cycle and pretty soon and I forget it.
22:13
I don’t look up.
22:14
I just focus on the three feet in front of me and it’s just a chunk at a time.
22:19
Lip baby steps, however you want to call it.
22:22
You can get wherever you want to go if you just take it a chunk at a time.
22:25
Don’t focus on the big goal.
22:27
And that I had a previous guest on the podcast who climbed Mount Kilimanjaro.
22:31
I had him like a week on the show, like a week after he got back and he told a story about how he they were going to summit and they were going to summit at night.
22:43
And it’s, you know, 14,000 feet or 15, whatever it is, it’s cold, it’s snowy, it’s icy, it’s miserable.
22:51
And they told me that we’re going to do this at night.
22:54
And he’s like, why are we doing it at night?
22:55
And they were like, oh, it’s the, the ground will be firmer and you know, it’ll be easier for you to get up, blah, blah, blah.
23:03
And he wanted to quit so many times, but he had a Sherpa with him.
23:07
And the Sherpa’s only job was for him to summit.
23:09
That was it.
23:11
What?
23:11
Let him stop?
23:12
He’s like, ’cause they knew as soon as you stop, you’re going to stop.
23:17
And so it’s, you keep going.
23:19
You just got it.
23:19
One step in front of there.
23:20
Just focus on your next step.
23:22
And he summited, he was so excited, took him, I forget how long, like 7 hours, 8 hours overnight to summit.
23:30
Made it down in like an hour and a half, something like that.
23:33
And when he got to the bottom, he asked the Sherpa, the leader of the Sherpas, like, what?
23:38
I didn’t make sense why we it did feel the grounded set, feel all that firm and whatever.
23:43
Like he’s like, oh, no, we do it at night because you can’t see the top.
23:48
If you if you do it in daytime, you can see the top, how far it is.
23:52
And you met people mentally psyched themselves out and they quit.
23:55
And so that it’s people as leaders, we have to remember this, that forget about these end goals.
24:03
It’s just what’s our next chunk?
24:04
Let’s just focus on our next chunk and get that done.
24:08
Eventually, we’re going to hit our goals.
24:09
And more than likely, like you said, we’re going to blow past our goals because we’re just worried about that NEST chunk in front of us, you know?
24:16
And I love that story you told.
24:18
I love that.
24:20
Well, I love the story you told because now I understand.
24:23
I summited Mount Rainier and they made us do it in the middle of the night.
24:27
I’m like, I wonder why we’re doing this now.
24:30
No, I don’t.
24:31
Yeah, no, exactly.
24:32
It’s so.
24:32
Yeah.
24:33
If you ever go to Kilimanjaro, that’s why you’re summit at night.
24:36
It’s on my list.
24:37
It’s definitely on my list.
24:38
Yeah.
24:39
And no, it’s like he, he, he, it truly transformed him because now he’s thinking like I truly, I can do anything.
24:48
I absolutely can do anything.
24:50
I’m not, you know, it.
24:51
And he, he had all kinds of demons.
24:53
We all do with self doubt, with, you know, stress, whatever’s going on in our lives.
24:59
It’s hard to get out of our heads sometimes.
25:03
Well, you know, and that’s another thing that I, I learned I was always kind of a self healer, self fixer.
25:12
I, I admit it.
25:13
There are times I had to learn to get more, more vulnerable.
25:17
I had to get, I had to learn to just kind of share.
25:21
And again, that goes back to the being able to say, I don’t know, but also just, you know, other people feel more comfortable and relate to that when when you’re not this.
25:30
I’ll tell you another quick little story of how I kind of started to learn that my when I was when I was in school, my dad was an outstanding mathematician.
25:38
He taught math early in his career.
25:41
I got to college and I was getting AD in calculus.
25:44
Let me be very clear, I didn’t get DS.
25:46
I barely got BS.
25:47
I worked my I wasn’t a natural a student, but I was that person who always worked to get an A And I was just devastated.
25:54
And I called my dad and my dad’s like, and I thought he was going to be just disappointed.
25:59
Biggest fear.
26:01
And he, I call him, he’s like, kid, I got physically sick every time I tried to do calculus.
26:06
My brain didn’t work that way.
26:07
And just him saying that made me go, oh, you know, it was relatable.
26:13
It made him human.
26:14
It made him, you know what I mean?
26:15
And I think all of us think sometimes, oh, I’m the only person that doesn’t get this.
26:19
Oh, and then all of a sudden you realize other people are you’re not that unique in some of the struggles that you have.
26:26
Others are there with you and it makes you more approachable.
26:30
And then you get the support you need too.
26:32
I had to, I had to learn that.
26:33
I think I wish I would have known that earlier, earlier in life, earlier in my career and really thought hard about, you know, that my dad’s teaching and that that it’s OK not to know something, be perfect or, or always do everything exactly right.
26:48
It’s OK to have hard times in your life and struggles and try and figure out how to balance things.
26:54
We’re all, we’re all humans and we’re all there together in that.
26:56
And it’s OK to, to share that.
26:59
I remember when I was a young entrepreneur, I, I, I was so scared of letting people know I didn’t have a clue what I was doing.
27:07
And so I just always had this persona of super confident on top of things, blah, blah.
27:12
I was scared to death, you know, like people come to me like, hey, what do we do about this?
27:16
And I had no freaking clue, but I was, I was totally willing to make a decision and like, well, let’s try this, you know, And I learned over time that it, it’s so much better for everybody if we say, you know, I’m not sure.
27:29
What do you think?
27:32
See where it goes, you know, and it’s just such a better experience for both people, whoever’s involved.
27:38
Yeah.
27:38
And I think you know it.
27:40
You know, when you go in, and even from a consulting perspective, it’s OK to say, you know what, that’s not my strength, but let me get the answer that’s across much better than just guessing and throwing it out.
27:51
You don’t trust credibility.
27:53
You do not have to be the answer person.
27:56
Just, you know, find a way to to, you know, get the answers another way.
28:01
Admitting that makes you that actually to me gives you more credibility and trust than always being the person with the answer.
28:07
Yeah, I don’t want to be the answer person.
28:09
I’m going to be the I’m going to get you the answer person.
28:11
That’s exactly because that’s all people care about it.
28:13
They don’t care how you get there.
28:14
They just want an answer.
28:16
That’s it.
28:16
You know, So it I that’s another lesson, sorry, lesson for them.
28:21
Yes, I I had to learn that one too.
28:23
You don’t have to be the person with the answer to, to build confidence.
28:26
You just have to be the person that gets it.
28:29
Could you give us an example where this attitude, this can do attitude that you have really made a difference in a tough situation?
28:39
Yeah, I think so.
28:40
Back back early on when I was doing ERP implementations, one of my first things as a tech lead is I had to we we had what there was there was there was dev, test, QA, prod and Dr.
28:57
all of these five environments, three of which were high availability 99.
29:02
You know, we’re financial.
29:03
Everything was uptime before cloud dating myself, but and, and we, we had less than a year and it was all a brand new.
29:12
It was a huge hop.
29:14
So, and it was me and, and, and this is where kind of that sales comes in.
29:19
I, I, I, I reached out and I, I made relationships.
29:23
And when my, the head of my department asked me if I could do it, I said yes.
29:28
But then I told her what I needed.
29:30
I’m going to need somebody to help.
29:32
So I trained a person that was offshore in India.
29:35
I, I recorded the script, I read and then I, I said, I’ll just call me if you need help, but run it at night.
29:40
And I kind of built this process and at the end of the day, you just dig in and you learn and you ask for help.
29:47
So I made relationships with the Linux people ’cause we went from Unix to Linux.
29:51
I knew nothing about the Linux systems that the DBA was doing hot backups for me.
29:56
I learned all these things and I created partnerships and I just, to me, it’s a mindset of can do, but also not looking for the ways that you can’t do it, but looking for how you can do it, right.
30:08
So I just spent all that time focusing on how can I get this done?
30:13
One of the bigger successes in there was when we, when we were going to go and, and go live, everything was quick.
30:21
I had a guy who was taking this on for the first time.
30:23
I let him do a dry run through QA and I said, how you feeling?
30:27
He’s like, I, I’m scared because he goes, I don’t feel confident going into prod.
30:33
OK, so let’s do Dr.
30:35
first.
30:36
Dr.
30:36
is less critical.
30:37
They’d never done it that way, but I just went in and, and proposed it, looked for the ways that we could get it done.
30:43
And we exceeded the, the, the expectations that we, we beat our timeline on, on both of those environments because you just build that confidence.
30:52
So it’s just, it’s, it’s two things, right?
30:55
It’s going in and just, we’re gonna, I’m gonna figure this out.
30:58
And then it’s also being creative, not just following that path in front of you that, that everybody’s gone, but taking some detours where it makes sense and, and setting yourself up for success.
31:12
OK, so you clearly enjoy problem solving and working with talented teams.
31:17
I do.
31:18
What’s your process for unlocking creativity in a group that may be stuck or they’re burned out?
31:27
So one of the things that I’ve learned sometimes is sometimes it’s easier to edit than it is to to start new.
31:35
And I think sometimes people get blocked when they are just mentally exhausted.
31:39
So sometimes I’ve done this with clients too.
31:42
OK, let’s stop trying to recreate the wheel.
31:44
This is how I would, this is what I’m thinking.
31:47
And I just kind of start them and it, it can be a hack job, right, ’cause then they’re really, that’s what you’re thinking.
31:53
But then they got to get involved and they get engaged.
31:55
And then the other aspect of that is that I’m not perfect either.
31:58
So then they feel like they can add value, right?
32:01
So I tried to not put everything on other people all the time.
32:06
Don’t just feed me, feed me.
32:07
Let me present something.
32:08
Let me tell, share your where my head is now kind of help me edit and poke holes in what I’m doing.
32:14
So they’re not always the ones having to create.
32:18
And I also would, I would also open doors with people when I was in the sales group as a sales leader.
32:26
I, I always said, I will make time.
32:28
You’ve got an idea.
32:29
Tell me what your idea is, right.
32:31
So allowing people to come with their own topics, not just telling them what the topic is.
32:36
And you’d be amazed at the things that people would bring and just share and they weren’t fully vetted.
32:41
And then I would share some ideas and then right.
32:44
It’s, it’s just creating that openness.
32:48
I’m never gonna just take your idea and say, well, that’s absolutely.
32:50
I’m just not gonna do that.
32:51
I’m gonna find the good things and the things to enhance and as long as you’re open and you’re excited about it, because I generally am, that’s where that curiosity comes in.
33:01
I love hearing about what people are doing.
33:03
I ask a lot of questions.
33:06
Then that’s then that’s fun and it makes them think too.
33:11
Now, you mentioned early on in the episode that you’re in a new role and they’re a couple of months now and you really a big, it sounds like a big part of your decision to join the firm is the the CEO and the CRO.
33:27
What was it about their personalities, their leadership traits, qualities that made you or contributed to your decision to make this transition energy?
33:39
So you can you know, businesses are businesses.
33:42
We’re all going to there’s they’re going to have their UPS, they’re going to have their downs.
33:45
You never, you know, no, you’re not going to walk into a perfect role.
33:50
It’s, it’s just not the thing, but the people, right.
33:55
I was not running away from something.
33:56
The company I was working at.
33:58
I, I had a great experience.
34:00
The, the, the difference was, was now I was, you ever get to a point where you’re like, I’ve done what I can do here and now I’m ready for a little bit of reset and a new challenge.
34:10
And really they have a great, you know, we’re, we’re in a growth mode.
34:15
I, I liked their approach.
34:17
I like their energy.
34:18
I like their passion and they’re excited and they know where they want to go.
34:20
So they were basically saying, jump on this train with me, This is where we’re going.
34:24
You’ve got your own PNL go forth and, and conquer, right?
34:29
So I, you feel like you’re a part of something and energy and, and you can inspire and also bring ideas to the table and actually have some influence of, of that direction.
34:39
It really, it hits it, it really hits all the boxes for me.
34:43
And they were the folks that kind of opened the door.
34:47
I, I had met some of my, my peers also as part of that experience and everybody was, it was the same thing.
34:56
You know, we got a lot of work to do and I could care less about working hard as long as I feel the, the, the example I, I think I got is in some cases you’re kind of building, you’re building the plane as you’re flying it, right?
35:11
You continue to do improvements as you go.
35:14
And I said, you know, I’m good with that.
35:15
I every, every business, you’re going to be doing some improvements.
35:19
As long as you’re not sitting there going, we’re just going to do what we’ve always done and you’re watching pieces fall off the plane.
35:26
Everything you’re, you’re, you’re building a really solid organization.
35:30
And of course, the other aspect for me too was really great reputation kind of that was the thing that that brought me to my previous role too.
35:39
And consistent thing when you’re going into these when consulting business clients, I like if you’re going out and you’re really building, if you’re building relationships and looking at long term benefits to your clients and you’re not just looking to sell a short term thing and you’re just revenue driven and you’re not client driven.
35:59
That really gets me because that truly is solutioning, right?
36:03
And and that’s really at at the at the at the gut.
36:07
So very customer centric.
36:10
I got sifted gears here just a little bit.
36:13
AI is completely changing everything.
36:15
It’s like a whole new world.
36:18
It, it, it should be changing the way leaders are thinking about process and technology.
36:24
From your perspective, how should leaders approach integrating AI into their organization?
36:32
I think the I think the the key is you, everybody talks about ROI.
36:36
You kind of want to look at where you get the most ROI.
36:38
Don’t just throw it in.
36:40
Look where you’re going to get the met most benefit and truly right now I, I am not worried about AI doing a bunch of people replacement.
36:48
It’s really how you leverage it, right?
36:50
I, one thing I heard from a from a young colleague at another organization is one thing they did is they, they encourage and actually it’s a KPI to go out and try AI tools and get some different experience with that.
37:04
I think that’s I think that’s great.
37:06
I think one of the keys is bring some of these things into your organization, these different tools and, and start to leverage them and let people and let people play with them.
37:15
Maybe even do we do some different learnings within ourselves internally, we we look at some specific process.
37:22
So the old term, I’m not a huge fan of it kind of gross smell, but eat your own dog food, right?
37:27
We leverage this because if I’m going to go recommend it to clients, but really just be looking at where you get that, where you get the most benefit from your from your day.
37:37
I’ll, I’ll give you an example.
37:38
A while ago I was I was working, I had AI had a call with a prospect and they were one of their biggest things was service manuals like their customer service.
37:51
They they were sitting there trying to search and and find answers for people.
37:55
Now, instead, you can kind of basically take that that and and get that bot that can kind of give them the answers right there.
38:01
They can put some additional, but at least it gives them more of the context and it just speeds up that customer service, right?
38:08
Looking for those areas where it can have the biggest impact is, is, is, is where I, where I see it and you, but you also have to build into the culture huge.
38:21
It absolutely has to be involved in the culture and it starts with the leaders.
38:25
Start leveraging, start thinking about it, start questioning people.
38:29
Hey, do you think you could leverage AI for this?
38:32
Do you think you could, we could try this and, and start trying things.
38:37
Is, is what I, I think so many people are afraid it’s just going to come in and take over.
38:41
I, I honestly think it’s more it’s just really how, how you start to, to use it.
38:47
Yeah, well, I tell people like, it’s it, if you do it right, it will become an enabler, not a replacement.
38:54
You know, it’s, it’s about enabling people.
38:57
And, and what I tell people is like, look for places where we can improve the customer experience.
39:03
You know, what are some tangible ways we can make it easier for customers to work with us, to interact with us, or we can deliver a better product or service to them.
39:13
Let’s make it about the customer and, you know, then we can work inwards from there.
39:20
But it, it truly can be transformative.
39:26
But you have to, you have to pick a focus point, you know, and, and either internal, external, whatever it is, but pick something and start from there.
39:33
But get started.
39:35
But get started.
39:35
It’s it’s kind of what we talked about.
39:37
You got to get started and I think and you, you don’t have to fast track it and and sit there and just just, you know, do anything.
39:44
AI yeah, think about it, but you’ve got to you’ve got to get in there, get started, try it and that will start to trigger some creativity and some ideas too, the more you get it.
39:53
Yep and and talk to people about it, ask questions, ask questions.
39:58
Yep.
39:59
CRM.
40:00
Do you love it or do you hate it?
40:03
I I personally love it.
40:05
I think it’s if, if used in the right way, it’s a tool.
40:09
I think the key is making sure where people really start to not like it is when you start to impose putting so much information where you’re spending more time putting stuff in and you’re not out doing what you need to do.
40:22
This should really be something that enhances your your role.
40:25
It provides data, it provides more insight.
40:28
It should be to your point about AI an enabler and when leveraged right, it can be an outstanding tool.
40:34
Some tools will even be able to help you remind you, hey, you were going to reach out to this person in three months help you put together those plans.
40:42
It can help you forecast right?
40:44
It can help your no, because I’m in services.
40:46
It’s a big deal to me.
40:47
I need to make sure that if I’ve got things that are going to be closing that we, we know we need people, right?
40:53
So it can be really helpful to make sure that you’re getting what you need in a really good communication vehicle just from having that data to kind of tell the story of what what you’re going to need and, and do some planning.
41:05
So I, I love it as long as it’s being used in the right way and we understand what data we’re putting into the system and why we need it and not asking people just because we think we should.
41:16
Yeah.
41:16
If you had a magic wand that you could change one thing about CRM, what would you use your your one time magic wand on?
41:24
Oh goodness, just give me brilliant reports, right?
41:28
It needs to be easy to report on with these systems.
41:30
And I think, you know, even within, it’s very hard to find any of these tools that, you know, really do it super well.
41:41
And it because quite frankly, I mean, most organizations you’re going to have some tweaks, but just standard, if I’m a salesperson, there’s certain things I’m going to need.
41:50
If I’m, you know, if I’m acro or if I’m marketing, just put some good things in there that we could just get.
41:55
Because what you’re going to get out of it really drives and inspires people to put data in, right?
42:03
That takes so much of the work out of it.
42:05
If you can have some visibility to the dashboards and the reports and, and there can it can be easy to get there because then it is, it really makes people want to put that data in.
42:16
But if you say put this in and in two years we’re going to have some reports and some predictability for you.
42:22
Yeah, that’s a hard, that’s a hard, that’s a hard sell.
42:24
Yeah.
42:25
I you have to connect it to a why a very compelling why message.
42:28
I talk about this a lot that people have to understand why they’re spending time.
42:34
You know, I’m I’m supposed to be selling, but you’re asking to spend a bunch of time in CRM.
42:39
Now, if you’re having them spend a bunch of time in CRM, that’s a whole nother conversation we need to have because it shouldn’t be like that, but it it’s there’s downstream decisions that are being made based on the data in CRM.
42:52
There’s all kinds of business impact.
42:54
There’s so many ways to communicate this.
42:57
Again, you just have to have that clear communication around it.
43:00
And if, but that takes a vision, you know, as well as four year CRM, I think to to, you know, to really it’s all interconnected, interrelated.
43:10
So we’ve we’ve gone a little bit long in this episode.
43:13
I because I did.
43:13
There’s so much I wanted to hear from you, Cami.
43:16
I appreciate you sticking around with me.
43:19
If people want to reach out and connect with you, if they want to learn more about Vervend, what’s the best way for them to do that?
43:26
Well, you can reach out on LinkedIn.
43:28
We can share my LinkedIn contact information and then my my e-mail is [email protected].
43:36
Yeah, that is great.
43:37
If you didn’t catch that, don’t worry about it because we have it in our show notes.
43:40
You can get that at impellercrm.com/sales Lead Dog where you’ll get not only this episode of Sales Lead Dog, but our 160 plus episodes.
43:50
Now be sure to check that out.
43:53
Be sure to connect with Cami and be sure to subscribe so you get all our future episodes of Sales Lead Dog as well.
44:00
Cami, really, really appreciate you coming on the show.
44:03
This has been a a great experience for me and welcome to the Sales Lead Dog pack.
44:09
Thank you.
44:09
Glad to be here.
44:09
And before we go, I want everyone to know Cami has a couple special people there or she has some people.
44:16
She’s she’s my own pack.
44:19
I’ve got her own pack in the office and I don’t know if you want to pick one up and and show everybody, but it’s going to be the first.
44:27
This is our first official dog on sales, lead dog.
44:33
It’s so cute.
44:34
Oh my gosh, there’s Bentley.
44:37
He’s like, you’re you’re waking me up, lady.
44:40
I was like, come on, man.
44:40
I had a good night going on.
44:42
What’s going on here?
44:44
So cute, so cute.
44:46
That’s the best way to live life.
44:48
We got a couple of dogs at your feet.
44:49
That’s just awesome.
44:51
Abby, Thank you again for coming on Sales Lead Dog.
44:53
It’s been great.
44:54
Thank you so much.
44:58
As we end this discussion on Sales Lead Dog, be sure to subscribe to catch all our episodes on social media.
45:06
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45:09
Watch the videos on YouTube and you can also find our episodes on our website at impellercrm.com/sales.
45:18
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45:19
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