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Welcome to the Sales Lead Dog podcast hosted by CRM technology and sales process expert Christopher Smith.
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Talking with sales leaders that have separated themselves from the rest of the pack.
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Listen to find out how the best of the best achieved success with their team and CRM technology.
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And remember, unless you were the lead dog, the view never changes.
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Welcome to sales lead dog.
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In today’s episode, I have joined in me Joel Robnett.
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Joel is director of sales and marketing for techeds.
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Joel, welcome to sales lead dog.
0:37
Thank you, Chris.
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Happy to be here.
0:39
Awesome to have you, Joel.
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Tell me a bit about techeds.
0:45
Yeah.
0:45
Well, Teched, we, we were, we were founded in the mid 90s as a consulting company.
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And as things have evolved and changed, we’ve, we’ve really believe that all companies, regardless of size or revenue, should have current security and technology capabilities to protect their business and protect their data and, and really just enable both their, their people and, and what they’re trying to do.
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So we’ve evolved just as most people do.
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And so we, we now offer managed services both on the security and operation side, cloud services, technology procurement, but really at the heart, we’re all about trying to solve problems.
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I think if you get into technology, it’s all about that, you know, it’s actually kind of the first one in our, our 4 core value.
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Solve the problem, do the right thing, go up for each other and ignite your brilliance.
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We really want to people that come to tech heads, we want to allow them to and then we find that that really does benefit our our customers and clients.
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So yeah, it’s a little bit about us.
1:45
I love that first core value of solve problems because I, I say this all the time about CRM.
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Nobody buys CRM because they love CRM.
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They are buying it because they want it to solve a problem.
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They want it to make their business better.
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They want it for the outcome that technology delivers.
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Nobody likes technology.
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We just need it as a tool fairpoint.
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Yeah, for sure, for sure.
2:10
No, I love it that that’s that’s your emphasis.
2:12
I’m completely aligned with that.
2:16
Joel, when you look back over your career, what are the three things you think have really driven and led to your success?
2:27
Good question.
2:29
I don’t know which one to start, so I won’t start any particular order.
2:32
But you know, I think when you, when you look at at just sales in, in general, I think a big part of that is, is really attitude effort, right?
2:40
I think that it’s one of the careers that your, your input drives your output.
2:47
And so I think just always wanted to, to drive hard the competitive nature of that.
2:52
I think that’s a big piece.
2:54
I also think whether you want to calm relationships or partnerships, I really believe in partnering.
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I think throughout my career, whether it was internally, externally with customers, the partnership team working together, trying to again solve the problem together.
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I think that helped me be successful because definitely none of us do it on our own.
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We’re always, we’re always, there are always people there that are helping us, whether it’s pushing us, pulling us, however that is.
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So I think that’s the that’s the other one.
3:25
And then the third one that’s going to kind of put four in there, I guess on two different, two different words, but totally fine.
3:32
Yeah, but, but the other one, you know, man, I’m kind of struggle a little bit for a third one.
3:37
Those are really the, the 2 core ones that I, I, I look to on that.
3:42
So, so yeah, I’ll end with two and I’ll that’s fine.
3:44
I’m sure there’ll be another one that’ll pop up as we thought.
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And you just laugh on my third.
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It’s fine.
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I got my third.
3:50
I got my third.
3:53
So young Joel, did you want to be like a sports star?
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Did you want to be what?
4:00
Like what was your vision as a kid of what you thought you would end up doing as an adult?
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Yeah, I, I, of course, everyone, I guess I shouldn’t say everyone.
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I, yeah, I’d definitely be a sports star.
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And I did get to to do some athletics, you know, through college and a little bit post college, But I don’t know if I had a clear vision of this is the one thing I want to do.
4:22
I think I had a vision of what I wanted my life to be.
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Actually I did.
4:27
I did want to go to be, go to law school, be a lawyer.
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I didn’t know if lawyer or judge.
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Don’t wonder if I should have come back and been a judge, But that’s OK.
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So I actually, I, I think you’re my first person who said they wanted to be a judge.
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I don’t think I’ve come up with that one yet.
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And it’s just like, hey, give me your story.
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All right?
4:45
I’m going to tell you whether I think or not.
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Like, and that’s the final decision.
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So that’s maybe tells you a little bit about my personality.
4:50
But yeah, and I actually did pursue that, interned with a lawyer in college and he gave me the advice like, don’t go to law school, go live a little bit of life.
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So I took that, I took the LSAT and then I was like, no, I really do.
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It’s one of those things where I was having a hard time kind of doing the filling out.
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So I’m like, I need a break.
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So I did and I was able to do do some some interesting things first year out of out of college work on a festival and some things that I hadn’t got a chance to do.
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And then just kind of stumbled realistically into technology and started in, you know, kind of customer support, customer service and still had plans to go back to law school.
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And then we had a a morning hoops group once a week that a bunch of people from the office and our in house attorney played.
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And so we were just chatting one day and I was talking to him about and he’s like, dude, don’t be a lawyer.
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Don’t be go, go into sale, go into sale.
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Really like, yeah.
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So that kind of set me on the course to go into sales and I kind of took the traditional path of inside sales and field sales and then working in sales leadership.
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So a little bit of how I got into it.
5:58
So that’s funny.
5:59
I mean, I, I have a similar, it’s different, but similar in that I from 7th grade on, I thought I was going to be a pilot.
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That was my plan.
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I was going to go to one of the academies, I graduate from Academy, go to flight school and be a pilot, either Air Force or Navy, didn’t care.
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I didn’t care.
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Then I found out I’m 65.
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I’m too tall and so one inch too tall for the Air Force and Navy.
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They do it different, but I’m still too tall.
6:27
And so then I was just like, I had no clue because I had it all laid out and that’s how I did.
6:33
I just kind of stumbled into computer science.
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I’m like, what do I do?
6:37
I, I like computers, yeah.
6:38
And that’s like I just kind of stumbled into it and it’s funny how life directs you where you need to be.
6:45
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
6:48
So you, you’re doing sales.
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What was the transition from your start, like customer service, support, that kind of thing into sales?
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Was that an easy transition for you or was there struggles?
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I think that’s part of the reason why I, I kind of felt like, you know, when the advice to stick into sales was there was because it was a fairly natural transition.
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I found in customer support.
7:15
I probably wasn’t most detailed to do that sort of thing, but when it, you know, detailed enough, I think, you know, when you start to look in at, at the sales piece, but you know, I, I was able to, you know, kind of develop a process.
7:27
I think the habits from athletics and you know, a lot of those sorts of similar carryovers, the team, the competitive nature, the partnerships, working with people trying to solve problems, it, it, it was, it was pretty natural for that.
7:40
And you know, I didn’t, I didn’t have a lot of guidance moving into that, that, that role, just the size company we were at the time.
7:47
So a lot of that was just kind of innate and got to to get out as an inside seller with my field seller counterparts and kind of be going and things like that.
7:57
And I just really connected with that and clicked with that.
7:59
So yeah, it was, I guess at the start it was pretty, pretty good transition.
8:05
That’s awesome.
8:06
Did you run into any difficulties, any hurdles that you had to figure out how to get over?
8:13
You know, I, I think just, you know, some of them picking up the phone and reaching out and being proactive and not waiting.
8:20
You know, I think that, you know, there was, again, we didn’t have a, it was probably earlier where we’re a little bit more metric these days and a little bit more process from that the outbounding piece.
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So I think a lot of that was just doing that, how to do it, the best way to do it, you know, realizing that it is, you know, some level it’s a math thing.
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You just got to do enough of the activities, right, the input to the output.
8:41
So I think that was probably just not really doing, doing that.
8:45
I mean, it was somewhat, hey, you want to talk to people, but I think there is still a, a method to that and a way to do that in a way that it’s most effective.
8:54
I think learning that was probably the biggest kind of challenge, right?
8:57
It’s easy to pick up the phone and hey, yeah, you want to.
8:59
Yeah.
8:59
But to go out and make that, build those relations, build a connection, I think that was kind of learning how to do that.
9:04
Yep, Yep.
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I think that’s some people can do it naturally.
9:07
It was not natural for me because I’m naturally a very shy person.
9:11
That’s something I really have to work at.
9:14
When you look back at that time, I think one of the hardest people thing for people in sales is to deal with I I hate the word failure because it’s, but not being successful because we don’t always succeed.
9:30
We lose deals, right.
9:32
That does happen, yes.
9:33
From what I’ve heard.
9:34
No, I’m just kidding.
9:35
Yeah.
9:35
Yeah, exactly.
9:36
It’s other people.
9:38
How did you deal with those initial setbacks where you’re not closing deals like maybe you thought you would?
9:45
And how do you leverage that today?
9:47
Yeah, Yeah, I will.
9:49
I will.
9:49
I don’t like to lose.
9:50
I mean, I do.
9:51
I definitely like to win, Right.
9:52
I mean, I think that’s what that’s what keeps doing.
9:55
I think, you know, initially and as I’ve I’ve gotten through that, I think it’s just, you know, I’ve, I’ve got it up on my my white board here.
10:03
You’re not right or wrong.
10:04
You’re right or lose.
10:05
So I think a writer or learning, excuse me, not losing.
10:08
So I think that’s really just trying to get back to that sports metaphor is you don’t like it, but you can always learn from it.
10:12
How you learn from it.
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How do you improve?
10:15
I think at some level, you know, you take it so seriously and you just got to as you get all these things, one deal long term, right, Trying to think longer term.
10:22
So I think that’s the toughest thing when you get your career.
10:24
Everything’s been so like, Oh no, Oh no, when really it is that that long term play.
10:29
But I think just trying to hate something happened.
10:34
Expectations weren’t clear either side, right, Their expectations, what we’re delivering what I was thinking.
10:38
So I think just trying to replay that just like you would in in the sports world of watching the video, going back, replaying it and kind of moving forward and just trying to realize like, hey, you know, the whole the analogies you’re going to do, you get back in the game, you keep going after, you know, that sort of thing.
10:54
So tell me what’s behind your decision?
10:57
What was behind your decision to pursue leadership?
11:01
The leadership role, I think it’s some level, I felt like it was kind of somewhat A progression.
11:09
And you know, I’ve always enjoyed leadership roles and a big leadership role.
11:14
So it seemed somewhat natural to do that.
11:18
And I do love coaching.
11:20
I mean, I coach a lot at this point in my life.
11:22
It’s kind of my hobby, got kids that age, and I really do enjoy it.
11:26
So I think that was just those kind of two pieces led me to pursuing a leadership opportunity to to do that.
11:35
So yeah.
11:36
And apparently I’m a glutton for punishment, which everybody said don’t realize until you’re in it.
11:41
Yeah, I’ve done that.
11:41
I’ve coached about everything.
11:44
Yeah.
11:44
You got to be a glutton for punishment if you’re going to do that.
11:47
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
11:48
You got to be willing to laugh when do you have a central theme or or you know, as a leader, especially a new leader, it building a rapport with your team, I think is central.
12:08
How do you go about that?
12:11
That I think that essential task of building that rapport, that trust, that connection with your team.
12:20
Well, I think you did, you know, I mean, it is establishing trust and trying to do it fairly quickly.
12:25
And I am, I, I do, I do think, I mean to me, I, I do enjoy getting to know people and kind of understanding them at a different level and hopefully being able to, you know, quickly commute.
12:37
I do, I’m interested in their success.
12:39
I’m interested in in them and helping them and prove whatever those go.
12:45
I’m, you know, again, we, we all have our number goals, but how do they get better?
12:48
So I think spending the time, you know, trying to listen to them, not trying to make it all about what I need from them, but what they need and how I can enable them to go do that.
12:58
And I guess the term term of leadership gets that bantered about a lot.
13:02
But I do think that I’m here to enable my my team, however big small that team is, I’m here to enable that.
13:09
That requires me to listen, build trust and I think spending time with them, you know, not just on sales call, but you know, other points in time and really trying to establish that that trust.
13:19
What role does that trust play when you’re establishing goals and expectations for your team?
13:25
Oh, that’s a good.
13:29
I, I don’t know if I’ve quite thought about it that way, but I, I think, you know, you got me stumped on that one.
13:37
A little bit on the on the trust thing here on how I would how would I relate that to the setting of the goals?
13:44
I think, you know, I just was it in collaboration?
13:48
Yeah.
13:48
And that’s kind of I think it’s a, it’s a transparency because we all know at some level we are, we are given pieces.
13:56
And I think the transparency and trying to understand and talk through how people can be successful with those goals and not just being like, hey, deal with it, move on.
14:08
So I think it was really more in how you communicate the goals, not necessarily the setting up because a lot of time takes, you know, it is what it is.
14:15
We got to go make this thing happen.
14:17
So I think it’s more about the transparency and the communication and helping people work through that.
14:22
If there’s there’s difficulty around that and how they can go do that.
14:25
So I think again, kind of getting back to my role as the enabler and really that communication and transparency of of what those goals are, how they can help achieve it, how I can help them achieve it, not necessarily feeling like they’re alone and doing that, right?
14:38
That’s you have a team, create a team culture.
14:41
So you’re not on that island.
14:42
I know, you know, there tends to be some sales folks like, Hey, I want to just go do it on my own and that’s great.
14:46
But we, we can help you, you know, work Better Together.
14:50
You can still go be that leader and that lead in your role, but really needs to be about a team supporting you and going forward.
14:56
So I, I would go back to really that transparency and communication and, and support piece of that.
15:01
I love that, especially that, you know, the lone wolf’s they like, God bless them.
15:06
There’s so many of them in in the sales world and so many of them are really successful, but we’re not successful all the time.
15:13
We all have down quarters and we need help, right?
15:17
And so that’s right.
15:18
I love that approach that people need to realize there are going to be times you need to lean on someone else.
15:25
And so you need to be, you know, I think as a leader there, there’s some ways you can role play that for people.
15:37
Is there something that you do or way that you do to kind of role play that for your your team?
15:44
It’s part of the trust perspective, the trust and just being part of the team and, and being open and, and being willing to ask for help.
15:51
Yeah, I think part of it is I try to, I think I try to demonstrate that right.
15:57
And hey, I don’t always have the right answer when we have tough problems, like I’m dealing with tough problems internally, like brainstorm with the team.
16:04
I think bringing them in to more, not all of the you can’t do all the decision process, but I think trying to make them a part of what we’re doing as a sales culture, as a sales team, not just, hey, you’re here to do something.
16:17
But but I, I think, you know, even in one-on-one scenarios, not, you know, I guess I, I getting back to the judge analogy, I do like to give my opinion and I believe it’s pretty correct a lot of the time.
16:28
But how do you, hey, I can tell you, but what do you think, right?
16:31
Trying to put it back on them, trying to encourage them to, to really for me to be a sounding board on that, on that piece of things.
16:37
So I think that’s how I try to, I don’t necessarily role play that, but help, you know, make sure that it really is, you know, a culture of, of trust and communication and hey, we don’t all have the right answers.
16:50
We are really here together, like let’s share successes, let’s share failures, let’s do all that.
16:55
I think that’s in I think that’s super important.
16:57
And sometimes it can be a little more difficult when you have a disparate team, right?
17:00
It is the virtual world.
17:02
I think those sorts of things become a little bit tougher.
17:04
So creating spaces where we are together, we are in person, I think those are still still important, especially for for sales folks.
17:10
It’s such a, you know, there’s a lot of emotion to the, I think the profession, right?
17:16
Again, getting back to the yeah, yeah, you definitely have the highs and the lows.
17:22
I think as a leader, that’s a, you know, especially in the lows, it you have to be very careful in terms of how you handle those with people because you can fracture trust.
17:33
How do you leverage the learning opportunities?
17:36
Some people call failure, but we’re talking before we record that it’s either when or you learn.
17:42
Yeah, I love that.
17:44
I’m a big believer in that.
17:45
How do you leverage that in your role as a leader?
17:49
I think it it, it’s having the the conversation and and doing it in a way that hey, like, hey, what could we have done different?
17:55
Not like not in a in.
17:57
I mean, so much of that is subtle in the communication piece.
18:00
It’s how you say it.
18:01
It’s what you do not coming down hard on.
18:04
Well, I can’t believe this or can’t believe that, right?
18:07
It’s like, hey, this happened, So what happened?
18:09
Let’s dissect it a little bit.
18:10
Let’s try to be unemotional about hey, what are the things we could have done better?
18:13
And then really the encouragement of hey, hey, let’s move forward again.
18:16
I think that’s the big thing.
18:17
Pause, you know, try to, you know, try to analyze what could we have done different us, them, probably a combination of both now.
18:25
Great.
18:25
Let’s hey, let’s go get the next one because there’s always next.
18:28
And I think that’s kind of re pivoting the focus to the go forward piece.
18:32
Yeah, I, I, it’s easy to get.
18:35
So especially when you’re getting started in sales, you’re so focused on what’s in front of you, it’s hard to have that long term perspective.
18:43
I think that that long term perspective, I think especially on on our side where there’s, there’s multiple things we can do for a customer.
18:49
We never want to get hang up on one thing, right.
18:52
And whether we whether we would just, you know, add a recent one where, hey, they’re not necessarily going forward with one service, but there’s some other things that we can go capitalize on.
19:00
Let’s focus on that.
19:01
Let’s move forward, let’s continue to work.
19:04
But I think always having that long term relationship partnership in mind.
19:08
And I’ll be working at this company, but really trying to make sure that that is, you know, that long term view is, is, is in mind.
19:16
Yeah, yeah.
19:18
You have to become a trusted advisor for your customers, especially if you’re in the tech world like we are.
19:25
And you know, because to do that, you have to understand what are the problems they’re dealing with.
19:30
A lot of times it’s not technology, but it’s wrapped around technology.
19:34
I imagine in your world, you guys have to deal with that a lot, right?
19:37
Where, you know, I’m trying to run a business and I’m using technology as a tool.
19:44
What do you guys do like with the how do you take advantage of those opportunities?
19:49
I guess is the question I’m asking you in in as yeah, well, I think you know, I think definitely with the the ethos to solve the probably sometimes we have a tendency to jump in too, but I think it’s really pulling back, trying to do as much as testing as possible and really trying to get to.
20:04
I know we overplayed the outcome.
20:06
What really are we trying to get to?
20:08
Like technology is just an enabling.
20:10
It’s just a tool just like anything else.
20:12
But what really are you trying to solve?
20:13
And I think sometimes it’s.
20:15
Even if I’m a consumer, it’s tough for me to really have I thought through that.
20:19
Do I really know what I’m trying to get to?
20:21
I think trying to work with customers to understand what really are you trying to get to and it and we do use the word outcomes, but I think that is the North Star, right?
20:30
You always got to be driving back back to that and maybe the 1st in a couple of discussions, it’s not really actually the outcome, right?
20:37
You kind of got to keep peeling back that asking the question, listening.
20:41
I know we talked about asking questions, listening, asking questions, listening.
20:44
I think that’s how we can, we can help customers do that.
20:48
And a lot of that is through assessments and things like that.
20:51
And there’s a lot of tools that we can use for that.
20:53
But I still think the that asking of the question always restating, hey, are we sure we’re still on the right path?
20:59
I think a lot of that is, is super important when you’re talking to talking to customers because again, whatever we deliver is a tool to help them get to their outcome.
21:07
Yeah.
21:07
And we talk about trust as a sales leader, but it’s also building trust with your customer.
21:12
Yeah, yeah, 100% yeah.
21:15
So can you elaborate that on more like what are some things you like to do to establish that trust beyond what we’ve, we’ve talked about with, you know, questions and and listening?
21:25
Yeah, I trust, trust.
21:27
Yeah, I, I think, yeah.
21:29
I mean, the core of it is, is asking those questions and I, and I think it, I think it’ll step back is where, where can we help and understand where we can’t help and being being transparent with we can’t do this.
21:41
We can’t do that.
21:41
I think that gets back to the partnerships.
21:43
If we can’t bring someone else to in who can.
21:46
I think as long as, you know, really trying to look at that holistic picture for the customer and partnerships on our side are a big piece of that.
21:53
And how do we how do we bring those in, even if it’s not something that we necessarily deliver, I think that’s another great way to bring customers trust being just straight up, no, we can’t do that.
22:02
And being OK with that and not worrying like, hey, we, you know, we got to, we got to hang on to every little thing.
22:09
But I think definitely trying to provide, you know, partnerships outside of what we bring to our customers can definitely help trust on that, on that piece of thing.
22:20
What part of your job do you love the most?
22:25
When you to me, it gets back to that, the relationship people when you when you’re with it, when you’re with a client, when you’re with someone on your team and you’re, you’re helping them be successful and again, and you’re or you’re just going through it, right?
22:37
You’re going through the tough time and you get to that other piece, But I think that’s part of the reason why I like the sales profession is that it had that built into that.
22:45
So I, I think that’s the same thing.
22:47
And and you know, again, it like I mentioned earlier, I enjoyed or wanted to get into the leadership role so I could help coach and I could see other people be successful.
22:54
So I think when I start to see when you see the team successful, when you see someone who’s who’s battled through something, whether I’ve specifically helped or just kind of given some advice or and, you know, help clear a roadblock, right internally, externally do that.
23:11
I think that’s still the most important thing.
23:13
And you know, the now with customer and, you know, get into that endpoint, be like, hey, we really helped you get to your outcome.
23:19
Like what we’re all here to do, right, solve that problem.
23:22
So yeah, yeah, that’s what it’s all about, right.
23:26
And it’s it is relationships where people people selling to people.
23:30
Yeah, yeah.
23:31
And I think that, and I think, you know, really that, that, and you know, we talked about on the outcomes, but I think also a, a big part is, you know, seeing, I guess as we talked through this is, you know, seeing companies, people, you know, work for that potential.
23:45
Because I think that, you know, we talked about being 110% or whatever that is.
23:49
I think it’s, it’s really hard to operate at that all the time, but you know, being able to identify, hey, you have potential to do XY or Z and then the work to go get there and then making that happen.
23:59
I, I guess that’s still part of the same thing.
24:01
But I think that that that is definitely the, the favorite part of, of the, of the, of the job for sure.
24:07
Oh yeah, yeah.
24:10
When you’re getting started, what was the hardest part when you early on as a sales leader?
24:17
I, I, I, you know, I think especially because you go from, you know, to, to front line to not want to jump, just jump in and do the job.
24:23
I think that’s the biggest thing.
24:26
And understanding how I can still help in the sales process without taking that over.
24:32
I’ve been a big believer and I can’t take it over even if it might cost in the long run.
24:38
The goal is, is that I enable the team to go through that and I still play a part, right?
24:42
Every leader plays a part in the sales process, especially if you’re in selling.
24:46
But I think at the end of the day, you just can’t, I guess, come in there and be the Super Rep.
24:51
So I think that was the biggest initial, initial struggle was being able to just again, get to that mindset of coaching, enabling, removing obstacles, being a part where I needed to be a part, not just jump in and try to run, run the sales cycle.
25:05
Right.
25:06
What are you trying to grow now?
25:07
Well, how are you trying to personally develop as a leader for 2025?
25:12
Yeah, I I think trying, trying to get a little bit even more bigger picture, you know, bring in some more sales methodologies specific as we look at growing both here and the and the organization as we look to grow and kind of doing that.
25:30
I haven’t done a ton of that.
25:31
So I think that’s new to me and kind of that bigger picture scenario.
25:35
So I think doing that and still kind of doing the the day-to-day and balancing that, how do I make the time to to get all of those things done.
25:44
But I think trying to kind of up level from some, maybe again, more important aspects and not necessarily urgent, right, The tyranny of the urgent.
25:53
What do you got to get done every day, every day, every day, do the deals and all that kind of stuff.
25:56
So kind of pulling back a little bit and seeing how we can look two, 3-4 years down the road to put in some more foundational pieces so we can continue to, to grow both both the people and the revenue.
26:07
Are you good at maintaining a work life balance?
26:13
I, I did, I do think so I, I, I think, but I look at it, you know, and that’s in, in more of an ebb and flow perspective.
26:21
I think it’s less about, it’s got to be the same way all the time and more about making sure that, that I’m making the time to have the quality time.
26:30
I think that’s the other thing too, not just, you know, being present with the family when you’re there, but also when I’m here being present and not trying to be.
26:38
So, so I think, I think, you know, I’m not perfect at it, but I have, that’s been a focus that I’ve always tried to make sure that I’ve got the, the, the ebbs and flows to make sure that I’m spending the quality time with the family.
26:51
And for me too, at, at some level, I, I definitely for me to be at my, my best for my team, I, I do need time to, to step away and charge up and have some other things so that I, I can do that, that piece of it.
27:04
So I think on the whole I’ve I’ve I’ve been able to to do pretty decent at that.
27:10
I get you asked my wife.
27:12
That would be the real the real the real answer for you on that one.
27:16
Yeah, yeah, That’s that’s OK.
27:18
We won’t bring out actually, I have her in the way.
27:20
Let me.
27:20
Oh yeah, I guess.
27:21
Oh yeah, yeah.
27:22
Behind door number one.
27:22
Yeah.
27:25
What can I forgot my next question for you.
27:29
You had to had to work the joke in Yeah.
27:32
What do you do to help your team with their work life balance?
27:39
I, I, it’s the same message I have for them.
27:42
I like, Hey, if you need to take time, go take time, make that the priority.
27:46
But but then come back.
27:48
And I think the other thing thing too is I think a little bit in sales, right?
27:52
You’re always, you always got to be ready.
27:54
You got to be ready with a respond.
27:56
Doesn’t mean you have to do the thing right now, but you know, a respond.
27:59
But I think that that that really is the, hey, if you’re going to be away, go be, do that and then come back and give it your all.
28:09
I think sometime, you know, and again, in sales, you do have a little bit more flexibility on that piece.
28:14
But I, I think that, you know, I’m always like, hey, if you need to take care of something on the personal front, go get that done, get that wrapped up.
28:21
Because if that’s not good, then it probably is going to lead into other areas there.
28:26
So I think that’s the same, same message.
28:28
Yeah.
28:28
What do you do to recharge your batteries?
28:30
What gets you back where you need to be?
28:33
Yeah.
28:33
I, you know, living in in Portland, OR, we’ve got a lot of great outdoor adventures.
28:38
So I think getting out there is always, always good.
28:41
I think Kierkegaard has a thing about a daily walk is the best medicine or something like that.
28:46
And I do, I do think just kind of getting away, unplugging, I think in our, our world, for me, I have to leave the phone.
28:51
I have to figure out a way to get, get that.
28:53
So, and those aren’t, I don’t get to do that often, but I think that’s the big, the big piece of it.
28:58
So, so backpacking or doing stuff like that.
29:00
And then, you know, just from, I do still enjoy coaching and I think coaching outside of the work is a, is actually a break for me because I get to use different pieces, but it’s still a lot of the same similar skill sets.
29:12
And I’m able to take some of the things I learned there and bring it back.
29:15
So I think that is a way for me to kind of recharge in a different way.
29:18
Yeah.
29:19
I, I, when I look back in the time coaching my kids sports teams, I think it actually softened me as a leader working with little kids, because you’re trying to do the same stuff, right?
29:30
You’re trying to get the team going in the same direction, working as a team, working towards a goal.
29:35
But yelling and screaming doesn’t work, you know, And it’s, it’s, you know, you’ve got to have a different way.
29:43
You have to find ways to get the kids to buy in and follow, right.
29:48
And I, I think a little bit of is a cry wolf, right?
29:50
You, you need to be able to be serious and, and communicate the important things when they are important and you still need to be able to have fun and things like that.
30:00
So I think finding that balance of what are the important messages and how the best way to deliver that.
30:05
So they understand that.
30:07
And then still, hey, it’s still, you know, it’s still, you know, it’s sports, it’s still a game, right?
30:12
So we still should have some enjoyment and the goal being like, hey, are you going to play next year versus the day?
30:16
Did we win the championship?
30:17
We want to win the championship.
30:18
But there’s a lot that goes into that.
30:20
The real thing is, do you want to come back and keep playing?
30:22
That’s right.
30:23
And, you know, and there’s also, you win some, you lose some.
30:27
It’s OK.
30:28
Yeah, yeah.
30:33
Where do you see yourself in five years?
30:36
Do you plan that far out or do you do more of a year to year thing?
30:40
I, I think, I think it’s more of like, hey, I have a vision of, of five years.
30:43
I feel like in today’s day and age, even budgeting, it’s hard to five years out.
30:48
But yeah, I, I, I think that in, in five years, I think it’s just not about.
30:54
Yeah, I guess where do I, I mean, I mean, hopefully you’re at tech heads.
30:57
We can, we can do some, we’ve got some pretty audacious goal and I see us being able to to execute on those.
31:04
I think, you know, there’s a lot of lot of work that needs to be there.
31:07
So I think it’s, you know, it’s probably in a similar role here that I have as far as leading the sales and marketing team, but just we’ve expanded, we’ve grown, you know, we’ve been able to help more customers in more meaningful ways.
31:20
So I think that’s where as I think about five years down the road, you know, it’s here and it is, you know, having kind of grown what we’re what we’re doing.
31:31
But in the, you know, kind of thing, I guess role I have that, yeah, I’d love that you head up both sales and marketing.
31:37
I I wish more organizations were structured that way because I’m a big believer that sales and marketing needs to be unified.
31:45
It’s really need to be the same team really when it comes right down to it.
31:49
How do you, you know, what’s your philosophy or approach to create that unity between sales and marketing?
31:58
Well, we, I mean, we meet together right When we do.
32:00
And again, we’re not a big team here, but we still meet together.
32:04
I think a lot of it is the, the sharing of ideas and, but I, I, I know that sounds trite, but I think unless you are doing things together, it becomes very hard to be a team.
32:14
I still get back to, you don’t have to do it all the time, but there has to be, there has to be some.
32:19
You got to, you got to know that you’re all on the same team.
32:22
I think a lot of it too is, is communication between what, what, what is marketing trying to do for sale, right And how, how does everybody see the whole flow of what that is.
32:35
I think some, you know, I’ve been on the sales side, but sales recognizing no marketing is trying to do stuff.
32:39
Sometimes I think as an individual contributor, you don’t feel that like I don’t get anything out of that, but there are lots of things that marketing is doing at a lot of different levels that do benefit.
32:47
I think they’re just harder to feel that one to 1.
32:50
So I think that’s the big thing.
32:51
What are we doing?
32:52
How are we doing it?
32:53
Maybe over communicating a little bit on that so people understand.
32:56
And then really being trying able to show sales, especially, hey, here’s what, here’s what you got.
33:01
And then I think making that a partnership, how do we work together?
33:05
I think, you know, you have company sales goals, but then for the sales Rep, how can we market specifically for them?
33:11
How can we kind of do the big picture, but also make it kind of personalized based on the account set and things like that?
33:17
So I think that’s how I’m trying to try and do that.
33:20
And again, you know, we’re a smaller org, but I think that in some ways a little bit easier.
33:24
I think definitely trying to, you know, get teams together, get people together and have making sure everybody understands the impact that that it’s all making.
33:34
Right.
33:35
Just listening.
33:37
Yeah, listening to you.
33:38
It just goes back to what you were saying before about trust, about transparency, communication, collaboration, being a truly being a yeah, our weekly huddle includes sales and marketing, right?
33:51
We’re kind of all, all talking about all sharing about good stuff, bad stuff.
33:54
So marketing tie ring.
33:55
I think that’s the other thing, right?
33:57
They’re hearing what sales is saying because a lot of times we will get this group in this group.
34:01
But no, we got to get together and talk about it in a, in a constructive manner.
34:04
But I think that’s been helpful to have us all together at least once a week going through all the good and the bad.
34:10
That’s awesome.
34:11
Shifting topics a bit CRM, do you love it or do you hate it?
34:17
When done correctly, I love it.
34:19
And I’ve experienced that once in my career.
34:21
But, but most of the time it’s, it’s a struggle, you know, I think.
34:25
And it’s a, it’s interesting being, you know, when you start in as an individual contributor, you’re really just like, what is it like, why am I doing this?
34:33
And then you get on the leadership side and you’d be like, Oh, this is super important, right?
34:36
When done well, because it can provide the, the the information needs did to make the decision.
34:42
And so I think, but it’s always, you know, it just seems to be a challenge and you know, just, you know, getting folks to do things and make sure it’s up.
34:54
And it just feels like you waste a lot of time and a lot of effort going back and forth.
34:59
And is the data right again, when I sit down with the Rep, I don’t, I don’t want to just report the news.
35:04
I want to have the data there so we can have real discussion about what needs to happen, not not update.
35:09
So yeah, so I think in in general, it’s it, it’s, it’s struggle, but I think it’s definitely more about how it’s implemented than the actual tool itself, I believe.
35:22
I couldn’t agree more.
35:23
I think people get too wrapped up on the tool.
35:26
The tool’s important.
35:27
You want to have a tool that’s got the capabilities, the core functionality you need for your business.
35:33
That is really important.
35:35
But I think people place too much importance on that because there’s so much that wraps around CRM that’s so important.
35:43
Your data, your processes, your integrations, there’s so much that if those aren’t addressed, doesn’t matter how good your CRM is, it’s in the middle of chaos.
35:57
No one’s going to perceive it as good.
35:59
Yeah, no, I yeah.
36:01
And I think thinking about it in terms of it is ACRM and I think a lot of you know, or the sales thing or marketing thing, it’s a company and it has to flow through how the company operates and it has to be integrated in that to really do its job well and not be not be a pain to everybody.
36:24
Yeah, and I say this all the time, CRM and I love you said when done right, when it’s done right, it is a business strategy.
36:34
It’s not technology.
36:35
People view it as technology, but when you do the right way, it’s extended throughout your business.
36:40
It’s not just sales, It’s not just marketing it because deal is 1 now we have to deliver.
36:46
That’s a much bigger portion of the customer relationship than just that initial sales process.
36:52
And that means it’s got to be connected throughout the business.
36:55
And to me, that’s a real transformation.
37:00
You know, you’re really going to have a tool that’s enabling people.
37:05
It’s not about Big Brother.
37:07
It’s not about, hey, I need to update my pipeline for our next meeting.
37:11
I mean, that’s great, but it goes so far beyond that.
37:15
Yeah.
37:15
And I think if it’s not done well, it does, it does kind of go down to, oh, my boss is just asking me to do this.
37:22
And it’s to say I don’t feel like most salespeople skill set.
37:25
It’s doing that.
37:27
So it’s, you’re asking them to do something that’s not in the If it’s not, if it can’t be a part of their real workflow and enable them, it’s always going to be a challenge to, to to, to drive the, the right information.
37:39
So it really is a whole company thing.
37:41
Yeah.
37:42
How do you create a culture around CRM and your, your sales process?
37:49
Oh man, I’m going to be honest on that.
37:51
It’s a oh, please.
37:52
Yeah, I mean, it’s a, it’s a work in progress.
37:54
We’ve yeah, it’s hard.
37:56
Yeah, it is hard.
37:58
And I think that’s why I talk, right.
37:59
It’s really, I know a culture of that.
38:02
I I think it’s, it’s getting to the big, it’s getting away from the Big Brother and try it again.
38:07
I think go to why is this important and why does it why does it matter and how?
38:11
Again, I think with nothing, how will it help you?
38:13
Whatever your customer, your, your team, How is this going to enable?
38:17
Not just because we need it, right?
38:20
That doesn’t really drive much impact.
38:23
How how does this help you?
38:25
And so I think part of that too is trying to be able to make sure that we’re, you know, architecting the CRM to be a helpful tool for the same.
38:33
But I think, I think it’s just letting people know that understanding, hey, the more we do this, the more it benefits you because this is the type of decisions we can make and this is how it will bring it back to you.
38:42
So I think getting back to that, that culture of transparency.
38:45
And again, we’ll hit on that word trust sales Rep got a trust that, hey, I’m not doing this one for no reason, just at the a checkbox 2 that it’s not becoming a policing methodology.
38:56
And I’m just every time I put it in there, I get a call from somebody, right?
38:59
Like, you know what I mean?
39:00
And no, it’s more like, hey, here’s and and I’m actually seeing benefit to to my my goals, right?
39:08
Their goal is to go this revenue GP number, right?
39:12
How is how is CRM helping me do that?
39:14
So I think really just trying to show that and it’s not perfect, but hey, this is what we’re going for taking input.
39:19
How do we make it better for you?
39:20
How do we make it easier?
39:21
So I think that’s that communication, that trust, that transparency is really what I’m, you know, working towards.
39:28
I think we’re still still got a little ways to go on that, but that’s definitely what we’re driving.
39:32
Yeah.
39:33
It’s not something that’s going to happen overnight.
39:34
It takes a lot of work, takes a lot of collaboration, a lot of ask a question and listen, you know, guys, how can we make this better?
39:42
How can we make this a tool that’s enabling what you’re doing?
39:46
What are some of the ways we can enable things?
39:49
Usually I tell you we need better data.
39:51
We need, you know, whatever.
39:53
But it’s also helping that I think the sales team understand that there’s a whole nother section of the business that’s relying on the data you’re putting in CRM, right?
40:05
You’re part of a larger team.
40:07
And so it’s not just what you’re doing.
40:09
We’re making decisions as a business on our forecast.
40:13
If we don’t have a good forecast, we’re going to make bad decisions.
40:16
Yeah.
40:16
And I think too, if we want to deliver what we need to for the customers we have had, right, getting back to right at the end of the day, we, we got to deliver all this once we sell it.
40:25
So how do we how do we do that in a in a Yeah, how do we manage the handoffs to the people that are delivering what we’ve sold?
40:32
We want those to be seamless.
40:34
We want the customer to have an incredible experience every step of the way.
40:38
And that serum is the backbone to make that happen.
40:42
I would agree.
40:42
Yeah.
40:43
Awesome.
40:44
Joel.
40:44
We’re at our time.
40:45
It always goes by so fast.
40:47
I hate looking at my timer here, but I always have come to a point where we have to shut things down.
40:52
Really appreciate you coming on the show and talking to us, sharing your experience with us.
40:56
If people want to reach on connect with you, if they want to learn more about tech heads, what’s the best way for them to do that?
41:02
Yeah, LinkedIn is the best way for me.
41:05
Go Robinette.
41:06
You can just go through that.
41:07
And of course the website, if you want to learn about tech heads, techheads.com.
41:10
So those are the two best ways.
41:12
Awesome.
41:13
So don’t worry about searching LinkedIn for him.
41:15
If you if you didn’t catch that, we’ll have a direct link to Joel’s LinkedIn profile as well as their company website.
41:21
Anything you need to learn about Joel and tech heads, it’ll be in our show notes.
41:25
You can get that at impellercrm.com/sales Lead Dog where you’ll get not only this episode of Sales Lead Dog, but all our hundred plus episodes.
41:33
Be sure to check that out and subscribe so you get all our future episodes.
41:37
We greatly appreciate that.
41:39
Joel, thank you again for the gift of your time becoming on Sales Lead Dog.
41:42
It’s been great.
41:43
And welcome to the Sales Lead Dog pack.
41:46
Thank you, Chris, really appreciate it.
41:48
Happy to be a part as we end this discussion on Sales Lead Dog.
41:54
Be sure to subscribe to catch all our episodes on social media, follow us on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram, watch the videos on YouTube and you can also find our episodes on our website at impellercrm.com/sales Lead Dog.
42:11
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