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Welcome to the Sales Lead Dog podcast hosted by CRM technology and sales process expert Christopher Smith.
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Talking with sales leaders that have separated themselves from the rest of the pack.
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Listen to find out how the best of the best achieved success with their team and CRM technology.
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And remember, unless you were the lead dog, the view never changes.
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Welcome to sales lead dog.
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For today’s episode, I had joining me Holly Hunt.
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Holly is vice president of channel sales for Cipher.
0:35
Holly, welcome to sales lead dog.
0:37
Thank you, Chris.
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Excited to be here.
0:39
Excited to have you.
0:41
Holly, tell me a bit about Cipher.
0:44
Yes, so I am new to Cipher.
0:46
I was hired to build the indirect sales channel just a few months ago, but excited to take take on this new journey.
0:52
Cipher is an MSSP, so a managed Security Service provider.
0:57
We are our parent companies based in Madrid, Spain and but we’ve been around since 2004.
1:03
We’re relatively new and probably unknown here in the United States because we were originally founded in Brazil.
1:09
But like I said, been around a while, have a very strong customer base and are now looking to have a go to market team here in the in the States.
1:17
And like I said, I’m heading up the indirect channel side of that.
1:21
It’s been a great reception so far.
1:22
I think cybersecurity is definitely top of mind for a lot of business owners right now because it’s really not a matter of if you’re going to get targeted and attacked, it’s when.
1:33
So yeah, I would love to as a side note, speak to anyone about that after after this.
1:37
Yeah, I tell you that is you said it.
1:40
I say that all the time.
1:41
It’s not a question of if it’s, it’s when.
1:44
So if you’re not thinking about cybersecurity, you’ve got your head in the sand.
1:49
Yep, 100%.
1:51
Yeah.
1:52
Awesome.
1:52
Well, glad to have you here.
1:54
Holly.
1:54
When you look back over your career, I know sometimes it can be tough to do what I’m asking you to do, but I need you to sum it up into three things that have really driven and LED to your success.
2:07
All right, Yeah, I could probably go on all day.
2:09
There’s a lot of different things.
2:11
But if I said three first, I would say probably resilience.
2:16
And I think we all can probably think about back to even 2020, right?
2:20
And just the way the world was and how how important it was and channeling our resilience.
2:24
But I think even back to when I started and in my career in sales is just being able to make it through the tough times in sales, making it through the losses, the nose right when you’re cold calling.
2:36
So that positive mindset getting back up after you’ve been knocked down South.
2:41
Resilience, I think is probably #1 #2 I’d probably say is being persistent, which kind of aligns with the resilience as well.
2:49
But just when it comes to building out a funnel, your follow-ups, really managing a customer base, growing, growing your customer base, being persistent communications being I guess, persistent and professional.
3:03
But a lot of times I think people stop that what that follow-ups right before sometimes the inflection point and before things really get to happening.
3:13
So it’s really being persistent.
3:14
It’s the long game, right?
3:17
The last one I’d say is, is my network.
3:19
And that’s, I know I’ve seen people say your network is your net worth and I, I truly believe that.
3:26
And that can be whether it’s, you know, finding customers when I think externally, but even internally, if you’re looking to, you know, get tapped for a promotion or, you know, chosen to lead a project, being networked internally, but both externally as well, whether in whether you’re in cells or any other type of field is a highly critical.
3:46
So I definitely focus time.
3:48
I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn and I have actually built a large part of my network even just through that social media aspect.
3:55
So I don’t ever always encourage when I talk to people that are just getting into a career, make sure you’re, you know, really making sure you’re building out your network and and taking care of it, because that can definitely help you, help repel you or the reverse can kind of hurt you if you don’t have that strong network.
4:13
I tell you that in fact, that’s been one of my goals.
4:15
I was meeting with my marketing team.
4:18
We’re doing it all, you know, our off site marketing meeting tomorrow.
4:23
And one of the things I told them is we need, I need help putting a plan together to better engage my network.
4:29
I’ve done all this work to build up a network and I’m not doing a good job at engaging the network and up with people because it takes a lot of work.
4:38
It takes a community.
4:39
You have to set time aside.
4:41
And I’ve not been good at that.
4:43
What advice do you have for someone like me who’s struggling with that, with that part of the job?
4:50
You know, it can be as simple as setting a slight time on your calendar and just saying this is the time I’m going to and maybe even say each day I’m going to choose five people to reach out and connect with.
5:01
And that can be via text, via LinkedIn message, depending on the, you know, platform and medium you want to use.
5:07
I, I did this a lot and I’m referring back to it in 2020.
5:11
But I do think as crazy as that time was, I did start a lot of good habits.
5:16
One of those each day I chose three people to reach out to randomly, whether it was someone that popped in my social media feed or someone that came to mind because I heard a song that reminded me of them, whatever, maybe a logo, their company.
5:30
And I would just shoot them a random text and a lot of them came out of the blue.
5:34
But I did it more than just to kind of keep people positive.
5:38
But I’ve also carried that habit into now just hey, reaching out, seeing how things are going.
5:43
And, and sometimes you never know, you know what I haven’t heard from you, but I was thinking about you for XYZ or hey, this was a great time because X, you know, this is happening and I’m glad to have heard from you.
5:53
So I get as much, I get fulfilment doing it, but you never know again, if you again, there goes that the persistence piece being persistent and each day again, choosing two or three people just to connect with because then that’s also digestible.
6:06
It’s not let me spend an hour of networking online.
6:09
It’s or you know, even breaking it down if you’re getting out in person events, one event a month, right?
6:14
Kind of just setting those goals and planning it out.
6:17
I think, you know, failing to plan is planning to fail.
6:20
So putting that plan together each month and you know, checking the box.
6:24
When you started college, where was your plan, your vision, what you’re doing now?
6:31
No, I love this question.
6:34
So totally different.
6:35
I went to school, I didn’t really know what I wanted to do, but it was just like, hey, go there, get your core classes out of the way and you’ll figure it out.
6:42
I wanted to be a sports broadcaster, A sideline reporter, Jill Arrington, which showed you that the time era I was in school, she was on the sidelines for college football.
6:52
And I thought, that seems like the most amazing career.
6:55
I love football and to be right there on the sidelines, so obviously didn’t make it there, but I did go into public relations.
7:03
So I did go to the journalism school, got a dual degree public relations and Sports Studies, sports more because it was interesting class, class load.
7:12
But for the public relations piece, I think I learned a lot just from written communication, you know, how to speak effectively.
7:20
And so that has helped me and lended itself well into sales roles for sure.
7:26
Yeah, I bet.
7:26
I bet.
7:29
Tell me about your first sales job.
7:32
How did you get it?
7:32
What was it like?
7:34
So I think back even to when I was probably a teenager, some of my entrepreneurial spirit of starting kind of a babysitter’s club and a lot of different little things I would do.
7:44
But my first official one, I’d say in sales was when I was in college.
7:48
I worked.
7:48
I was an assistant store manager at a clothing store.
7:52
Selfishly, I liked it because Were you too?
7:55
Me too.
7:55
Yeah.
7:56
I was assistant to the manager, which made me laugh.
7:59
The the job ad was assistant manager.
8:01
When I went in there, it was kind of like Dwight Schrute in the office where I was the assistant to the manager ultimately.
8:08
But it whatever.
8:10
Oh, got it.
8:10
OK.
8:11
Yeah.
8:11
Well, and sometimes I was the glorified key holder, right.
8:14
But I could open the store.
8:15
I had a little power.
8:16
And when I look back thinking I was, you know, 2021, that was kind of crazy.
8:20
But, you know, for me, I got a major discount on very few clothes.
8:25
So that’s what drew me there.
8:26
But, you know, we had quotas and I had to manage the sales teams for that so early on.
8:32
I guess I have to say that really gave me some good a good taste of what cells is and you know how to interact with customers and having a quota and goals and that type of stuff.
8:41
I was incentivized with discounted clothing and things like that.
8:46
So it definitely has evolved.
8:47
But from there I did also started my career in telecom cells while I was in school as well at Cingular Wireless.
8:56
So again, now I guess has was purchased by AT&T ultimately, but I was around when the first iPhone was launched, working at Cingular Wire Wireless then.
9:05
So about 18 years ago.
9:07
Yeah, that’s crazy.
9:09
Yeah.
9:10
Just thinking how far it’s come in 18 years.
9:14
And when you threw that number, I’m like, wow, it’s really been 18 years.
9:17
18, That sounds right.
9:18
Yeah.
9:18
Yeah, 2007.
9:20
And it’s like, God, like we can’t live without these devices now, you know, you had to think about life before then.
9:26
We used to have the little Nokia that I’ve played, like snake games.
9:29
And now it’s, to your point, our entire lives are wrapped up in our cellular device.
9:33
Oh, yeah, no, it’s crazy.
9:36
So tell me about your transition into leadership, a leadership role.
9:42
What was your motivation to even consider that transition?
9:47
So I’m I’m not going to really count the the clothing store 1 because this it wasn’t up like a true sales leadership role.
9:54
What where I so I started working with Comcast Business in 2012 as a sales Rep and about six months and six or eight months and my my boss manager, self manager at the time was promoted to another team.
10:09
There was an opening and candidly I didn’t consider myself for it.
10:12
I was the youngest and I was the only female in a technology sector.
10:16
So I didn’t think much of it.
10:17
But I think my director at the time saw something in me, which sometimes that is, I feel like when it comes to kind of the networking piece that you asked about earlier, putting yourself out there and, and, you know, asking for opportunities to prove yourself and to take on special projects.
10:33
That type of stuff will sometimes get that attention of leadership, if that is what you desire to get into.
10:39
So he, my director approached me and said, you look, I’ll be looking to backfill the manager position.
10:44
Are are you interested?
10:45
And I thought, well, that’s a good question, Am I right?
10:47
I hadn’t really considered it, but I appreciated him tapping me on the shoulder And I said, you know, I would like to take on the opportunity.
10:55
I, I enjoyed the, the sales.
10:58
I thought maybe it’s just now more of sales on steroids.
11:01
Right now I’m just working with I have a larger quota.
11:05
I had a lot to learn, I can tell you, because I didn’t really realize what I was getting myself into, but I did appreciate early on, I was probably in my late 20s when this when this happened.
11:14
So being able to and especially in the technology sector, which is ever changing.
11:19
So so yeah, that was it was interesting.
11:23
What were some of the biggest misconceptions you had heading into leadership?
11:29
So being in sales leadership specifically, I thought, well, now it’s it’s managing to a sales number, right?
11:35
I just now I have a larger quota and I’m just going to talk to them about their funnel and run sales appointments.
11:41
And I really didn’t understand that my role really should be to coach and develop my team.
11:47
And if if I’m doing that effectively, then the number will will come.
11:52
So I would say I was a poor communicator early on.
11:55
I definitely was not easy to work with.
11:58
I actually a little embarrassed to say, but I’m very honest and open.
12:03
I had some HR complaints because they said, you know, you’re very aggressive.
12:07
It’s like you’re yelling at us because we’re not hitting our numbers.
12:10
And I kind of had to take a step back.
12:12
And I always recommend this book that I was recommended to me by Susan Scott.
12:16
And it’s fierce conversations.
12:19
And I had to learn how to communicate effectively and how to make sure when I’m having a coaching conversation, the first of all the the conversations are coaching in nature that it’s not just let’s dig into your funnel.
12:30
Where’s this one?
12:31
What’s the update?
12:32
I could have really gotten that information from ACRM, right?
12:36
But sitting down and really having the, the, the coaching conversations and, and seeking to really develop my sales team.
12:42
Once I started understanding how to do that, how to tailor my conversations based on how the audience would receive the message, a lot of that comes with being more self aware, you know, understanding how I’m being perceived.
12:56
It was a lot for me to really take that on and, and to do it, but it changed my life, Chris, not only professionally as a sales leader, but also personally just in how I interacted with my, at the time, significant other, my friends, even my parents.
13:13
Just being more effective communicator, being more self aware, it led to a more, less stress in the sales process, right?
13:22
But being able to have more effective conversations, what role did vulnerability, empathy, whatever you want to call it, play in that transition for you?
13:36
So I it definitely made me more vulnerable.
13:38
I think that’s scary to begin with, right?
13:41
Is no one wants.
13:43
It’s like you feel like, OK, everyone’s looking at me.
13:44
They see where my and maybe my I won’t even see a weaknesses areas of opportunity.
13:49
That’s what always and now I’m channeling myself back to my one to one conversations, right?
13:54
It’s not your weakness, it’s your area of opportunity.
13:56
And so it exposed that for me, exposed the areas where my blind spots, where I thought, you know what, I’m strong here.
14:03
You know, I was a Rockstar salesperson.
14:05
That’s part of the reason that I was asked to take on the team.
14:09
But just because someone’s strong and sales doesn’t mean there’ll be a strong leader.
14:13
And I think that was a misconception I had.
14:15
Well, I’m killing my number.
14:17
You know, obviously I’ll be able to do it more widespread, but there’s a lot more dynamics below the surface.
14:23
And I learned that and and again, I think fortunately I carried that vulnerable vulnerability with me as as I’ve grown into other roles beyond just that one cells leadership role, just that it’s it’s not a weakness.
14:39
I think that sometime is the misconception if I’m vulnerable and weak, but you really can learn and grow as a person.
14:45
And I think you can also connect with people better to the empathy piece.
14:49
You can empathize with people better, but people empathize more with you and relate more to you if you are vulnerable and are willing to have like just candid conversations.
15:00
Yeah.
15:01
It’s to me, if my boss isn’t being open with me, open, honest, vulnerable, showing empathy, I’m not going to give them back to them.
15:10
I’m going to respond the same way.
15:12
They’re engaging me, you know, And it’s like when I I really believed in this, that when you show that vulnerability, you’re opening a door for that person then to let go of whatever they’re carrying, which often times we have no idea what it is, but you’re opening that door for them to begin sharing what’s truly going on, what’s blocking them, what’s keeping them back, whatever might be the 100%.
15:38
And you were just as you’re saying that you popped into my head.
15:41
Simon Sinek, sure you’ve heard of him.
15:44
So for all the listeners, if you’re struggling with this or you have a cell leader that is he has some really great, even just some short Ted talks, but he talks about the heart count, not just headcount, right?
15:55
Seeing people as people and creating that really circle of trust within the team.
16:00
And it’s amazing.
16:01
It seems like just small thing, but that when you really create that circle of trust and people feel comfortable and safe about how much they’ll open up to you.
16:09
And it’s it’s a game changer.
16:11
And what will then, like I said, the number will come right.
16:14
And and what you’ll see in the productivity and how the cells will increase just by sometimes changing your approach there.
16:22
Yeah, no, I 100% agree that I think that’s the hardest lesson or one of the hardest things I had to learn early on was the vulnerability piece.
16:33
I always felt like I had to be the smartest person in the room, to be a good leader, to have all the answers, to be able to lead in front, often times completely with imposter syndrome.
16:46
You know, that I hope they don’t know that I’ve no clue what I’m doing and that don’t just listen to me anyway.
16:54
And and I’ve learned that.
16:56
And often times you get the best stuff and you say, hey, guys, what do you think?
17:01
You’ve got these options.
17:02
What are your thoughts and let people talk.
17:05
Yeah.
17:06
And I think if you do it the first few times, it’s scary.
17:08
But I think when you do it and, you know, it’s funny, I’ve sometimes been vulnerable If if on my LinkedIn, I I’ve done a poor job recently.
17:15
But you know, it’s resolution time.
17:17
So I’m like, I’m going to do more of it this year.
17:18
But I would post something that was weighing on me, weighing on my heart, or, you know, that it had been consuming my thoughts recently and the amount of messages, the sheer quantity of people that would reach out and say, thank you so much for posting that.
17:33
You know, I didn’t I’m, I’ve been nervous to really talk about it, but you just inspired me to, or it resonated with me.
17:38
And just, you don’t realize to your point, how many people are going through things that are similar, but none of us are talking about it.
17:44
Sometimes just being vulnerable is a game changer.
17:47
It really is.
17:48
It’s, it’s so it’s because ultimately we just, we want everyone to operate at their best potential.
17:55
That’s our goal, right as leaders is we want to enable our teams to operate at their best potential.
18:01
How do you do that in your role and as you as you move forward in your current role?
18:07
Yeah, so mine.
18:08
So vulnerability big on that.
18:10
That’s key.
18:11
I also, for me, it’s how I start the first hour of my day.
18:15
I blogged about this a lot again to bring it back up during the 2020 era.
18:20
But you know that get in the right mindset.
18:23
You I can’t underestimate how important that is.
18:26
And I noticed it on days where I don’t do it right.
18:29
Maybe I just get up.
18:30
I immediately turn to the news or social media, which a lot of times is negative and I get into that negative headspace, right?
18:38
So taking that first hour of the day, if you can’t do an hour, start with 20 minutes, thirty minutes, whatever.
18:44
But for me, it’s, it’s exercising.
18:47
So I used to run a lot, have a torn hamstring injury that’s prevented me from the runs.
18:53
But that was very therapeutic mentally as much as it was physically.
18:57
Now I do a lot of spin classes or sculpting, whatever it is, but I get a good workout in, get the endorphins flowing.
19:03
And then a lot of times it’s just really practicing gratitude, whether it’s through meditation, prayer, but really setting it sets the tone for the day.
19:12
And it’s honestly Chris, the like I said, the days I don’t do it for whatever reason, maybe I’m not feeling well, I’ll wake up late, have something else competing for my attention.
19:22
And it I notice as the day goes on, I’m a little more irritable, you know, a little more agitated about this or that.
19:29
So it’s, I think the how you spend that first, again, hour, if possible, but that first segment of the day really sets the tone for the rest of the, the rest of it.
19:38
So getting in the whatever it is means for you to get in a positive mindset.
19:42
I love that that.
19:44
Yeah, it’s however you do it.
19:45
We all have our own way and where our own needs.
19:47
But I think you have to understand what that is.
19:51
And, and if you don’t delve into that, dive into it, figure it out.
19:55
Yep, absolutely.
19:57
What’s the hardest part of your job?
20:01
You know, currently, I would think, I think it is imposter syndrome.
20:06
It’s what’s funny you brought that up.
20:07
So I think it’s that and then it’s just also kind of starting from scratch.
20:10
So I’ll start with the imposter piece.
20:13
I come from a telecom background but I was really focused on the connectivity side of the house in my prior roles so.
20:21
Cybersecurity is a whole new world for me.
20:23
So I’m tasked with building a new indirect sales channel program in cybersecurity.
20:29
But I’m also trying to learn cybersecurity, which is an ever evolving landscape.
20:34
So I think sometimes I have shorted myself because I’m like, well, I don’t feel qualified to be the presenter.
20:40
I need to find someone that’s a little more technical, that knows a little more.
20:45
But honestly, Chris, I’ve had to really be honest with myself recently and say, Holly, half the time the audience you’re speaking with in your role, they’re not that technical either and goes back to your point of vulnerability.
20:55
They appreciate you just being honest with them and saying, hey, I don’t know that piece.
21:01
I do.
21:01
I do know who does and I’ll bring them on to our next call.
21:04
They appreciate that more than me trying to, you know, BF my way through it.
21:09
And I think they connect with me more because a lot of the partners, business partners that I’m speaking with in the channel, they’re like, I know enough to be dangerous.
21:19
I know enough to kind of open the conversation with our end user customer, but I can’t really get into the nuts and bolts of it.
21:26
And that’s where I say, hey, that’s OK.
21:29
You know, I can bring the right resources in, whether I’m that right resource or is someone else on my team and getting them to that level of comfort.
21:37
But it’s funny, I had kind of a light bulb moment and it’s like, well, Holly, you’re telling them to do this, but you’re not doing it.
21:41
So I think sometimes it’s just saying, look, it’s OK not to know everything and it’s OK to admit you don’t know everything.
21:48
No one expects you to, right?
21:50
No, I just had that conversation with someone earlier this week that they were nervous about presenting to this group and they said the same thing you said where like, Hey, I’m not as technical.
22:04
I don’t have that background, but I’m like, remember who you’re talking to?
22:07
Neither are they.
22:08
They don’t want to hear from a technical person.
22:10
They want to hear from someone who speaks English that can talk to them in a way they’ll understand.
22:16
Well, it’s actually a strength, I think, to come from that position of I’m just like you, you know, and that that’s how we build rapport and relationships is, is people to understand.
22:29
Look, I’m just like you.
22:30
I’m not here to sell you.
22:31
I’m here to help you, educate, advise.
22:35
But let’s do this together.
22:37
Yep, 100% yeah.
22:39
Yeah, when days are really hard, things are down, what do you do to get yourself back on track?
22:48
Build up that fire in the belly again, get motivated again.
22:53
So thinking, you know, I, I, it used to be for me, I was go, go, go.
23:00
Like there’s no time to stop.
23:03
I think when I, when I’m feeling like that, I have to be introspective and, and kind of take a inventory and do I have a good work life balance right now and does that?
23:14
Maybe it means a day off.
23:15
Maybe it means that I’m cutting in like too long of days.
23:19
Maybe it’s, you know, cutting it off earlier and and doing something where I feel like I’m able to kind of mentally decompress.
23:27
So I think it’s kind of take a step back doing that inventory.
23:29
Why am I feeling this way, right?
23:31
And, and exploring that a bit more.
23:34
A lot of times it is just taking that one day.
23:37
I used to, I think earlier in my career, I felt guilty.
23:40
I think a lot of us do, if we’re very, you know, successful and want to be successful and we hold ourselves to a high standard and we don’t take days off, right?
23:49
We’re grinding, we’re working and you know, it’s not as the best thing you can do is take that day and it phone free, right?
23:56
And it’s a scary thought, but turn the laptop off, turn the phone off and just do something for you and you can come back feeling.
24:03
So I feel like refreshed from that.
24:06
And so not being afraid just to kind of take that.
24:08
I’m going to call it a mental health day or whatever it may be.
24:11
And then really doing it, not just taking the day off, but doing laundry and, you know, doing, you know, paying bills or, you know, doing other stuff, really just finding things you enjoy in life.
24:21
Because honestly, Chris, why are we doing all the the work and the hard stuff we’re doing if we’re not also taking time to enjoy?
24:28
And so I think it’s it’s taking a pause and saying, wait, what’s going on that I’m feeling this way and what do I need to do to reinstill that kind of work life balance?
24:39
Yeah, yeah.
24:40
Do you look for that in your teams as well and try to push those people in, you know, to, hey, take a day off, that kind of thing?
24:48
Absolutely, Absolutely.
24:50
Because to your point, if you’re not feeling your best, you’re not going to bring your best self to work.
24:54
And really, I think this is where it comes down to, you know, when I had those coaching conversations, building that team environment, that camaraderie, that the level of comfort where people can say, look, here’s what’s going on personally, right?
25:07
And be able to make you feel comfortable enough sharing what they’re going through, at least enough that I can say, OK, I think take the rest of the day off or, you know, deal with that first Because until they deal with whatever that is, sometimes it’s something, you know, care for a sick child, care for an elderly parent, maybe they’re going through a divorce.
25:25
I mean, whatever it could be.
25:27
You know, it’s funny, we used to say, you know, there’s your work life and your personal life, but we’re the same person, right?
25:33
And so it’s not like you can turn one thing off when you walk through the office door or that Zoom call turns on.
25:39
And so if you’ve got to take care of whatever you’re going to take care of so that you can show up for your best self.
25:45
And so, you know, if you do see someone acting a little differently or, you know, just not or even when they’re not performing, I think a mistake I made early on as a self leader, if they’re not performing, they don’t care, they’re goofing off.
25:58
You know, they’re not working that 40 hour workweek, whatever it may be when a lot of times start peeling back that layer of the onion.
26:04
And when you have had reps cry in my office, right?
26:08
Because they were like, here’s what’s really going on.
26:10
And when they felt comfortable enough, it was like to share that they’re like, OK, just like a weight being lifted off.
26:16
And we come up with a plan together where whether sometimes it was, hey, you know, you don’t have to make that morning meeting that I’m holding on Monday.
26:25
If you do have to take care of this personal thing, you know, maybe stay late, you know, whatever.
26:30
We worked something out that worked with them.
26:31
And I think if you’re flexible as a leader in your approach and how you work with people, you will say they, they’re going to want to be that they’re going to be so loyal and much more driven to want to succeed because they feel like they don’t want to let you down.
26:45
And you’ve, you’re, you’re in the corner.
26:47
You know, they know they’ve you’ve got their back.
26:49
That’s important 100%.
26:51
Have you ever had a mentor that really is just impacted you in your career?
26:58
I do yes, I do have someone, Ryan Mendez, I would like to say your name with the Comcast.
27:05
I remember early on I was a sales leader.
27:08
I’m here based in South Florida and I was in Miami, but I thought, you know, I’d like to really get into like a travel role.
27:14
And I, I’d met her at headquarters.
27:16
She was a headquarters employee with Comcast and Philly.
27:18
And I just kind of reached out to her and said, Hey, I’m interested in, in travel roles.
27:22
Like could you kind of give me some guidance how to navigate this corporate landscape, right?
27:25
This is a big Fortune 30 company.
27:27
And throughout my, I guess I met her, honestly, I think it was my new hire training, so probably six months in, but we’re still good friends today.
27:35
And I think that I was going to call it 12 years throughout my 12 year career when I was struggling with maybe looking at a different role or I had questions about things, she was a constant.
27:47
She was always someone that would pick up the phone.
27:49
She would take time to meet with me.
27:51
She had times would fly down if I was in a different city and just to take the time to really sit down and put the effort in.
27:58
And that spoke volumes about, you know, her dedication and again, feel like you have someone in your corner, as you mentioned earlier, like that, it made all the difference in the world for me.
28:08
So it really, I encourage if someone doesn’t have a mentor or a coach or whatever you want to call it, having someone that you can and sometimes maybe take it off the cuff, right, that there’s someone you can really just have those honest conversations with.
28:22
So it doesn’t have to be someone in your company if it’s someone you feel more comfortable outside of it, but someone you trust that you can bounce ideas off and, and, and get honest through feedback and they, they have your feel like they have your best interest at heart.
28:36
It’s, it’s, it’s made all the difference for me in my career.
28:40
That’s awesome.
28:42
Shifting topics a little bit.
28:43
It might be a sensitive topic for you.
28:46
If it is, I apologize.
28:47
But is it hard for you being a leader and a woman and that you mentioned earlier, like you’re the only woman on the team?
28:55
I have a lot of females on the show that have similar experiences.
29:00
So what was yours like?
29:03
It definitely was challenging.
29:04
And it’s it’s not a sensitive topic because it’s something that I, I enjoy speaking about because I want to inspire other women not to not apply for those roles and not to sit on the sidelines because they think, look, this is probably not, you know, an area I should be in.
29:20
I mean, cyber security in particular, I know it less than, I don’t know the exact number, but sure it fluctuates.
29:26
Less than 30% of leaders in the cybersecurity space are females.
29:31
And so and, and similar in technology that I was in prior.
29:35
So it’s important that women, I feel like if if you don’t see it, sometimes they don’t believe you can be it.
29:43
And so making like being visible and saying, you know, you can still still be a woman, but also it, you know what, we’ve circled around this road a few times, but vulnerable, being vulnerable because I think I saw that early on as a woman, it was a weakness.
29:57
So I wanted probably, which goes back to my HR complaint.
30:01
I’m going to be, I can be just as tough as these men.
30:04
I can put the hammer down.
30:06
I can show them who’s boss.
30:07
And I didn’t have to be that way.
30:08
I felt like I did to overcompensate for being younger and for being female when really I just, and again, this came through years of, of developing myself as a leader, but when I could see that I could be vulnerable.
30:22
And, and you said that they come with age as well.
30:25
I mean, I think being young, it was just tough to really understand that.
30:28
But as I’ve gotten older, I don’t see it as a a handicap.
30:32
I don’t see it as, as something where I’m not as is equal.
30:36
I’ll honestly see it as an advantage because people do, Oh, you actually do know about security, right?
30:43
Like this is where I’m very focused on the learning side of it for myself personally is I do want to show up to the conversation.
30:49
I don’t want to diminish.
30:50
Sometimes I would diminish myself.
30:51
Oh, you know, I’m not, I’m just a salesperson.
30:54
I’m not the tech.
30:55
I don’t do that anymore because it’s like, you know what?
30:57
No, I’m, I’m, I’m doing the role I was hired for.
30:59
I’m very capable and confident.
31:02
And I think having that confidence again, it’s tough to kind of get there.
31:05
But once you can of just being yourself, then I feel like, you know, no matter what, what audience you’re in front of, we’re all human at the end of the day.
31:16
And so as long as you’re professional, obviously, then you know, be yourself.
31:21
Don’t worry about if you don’t match up to everyone else or you are the only female or the only person of color, Be proud that you are in that room.
31:29
And you know, a lot of times people do, they can learn from you.
31:32
So I, I’ve always felt a lot of times it’s hard being an outsider coming in.
31:39
Like if you’re a new industry, you don’t have the experience, but I’ve learned, you know, doing what I do, there’s a lot of times we’ll go into new industries we’ve never worked in before.
31:49
But to me, the advantage is I ask better questions because I’m not coming in with these assumptions other people may have where they’re blowing by something where they should have stopped and asked a question.
32:01
And so I’ve always looked at that as like, hey, I’m just going to ask a lot of questions and, and they’ll be fine.
32:09
No, that’s, that’s a great perspective to have.
32:11
Yeah.
32:11
Because then you’re, you’re not, like I said, you don’t have the preconceived notion.
32:15
Oh, they will like this.
32:16
They won’t like this.
32:17
They’re already probably doing XYZ.
32:19
You’re generally just doing a true discovery.
32:21
So you’re it’s more advantageous.
32:23
Yeah, I agree.
32:25
Shifting the topic a bit again, CRM, do you love it or do you hate it?
32:30
It’s a loaded question, Chris.
32:33
I love it when used effectively.
32:35
Can I, can I caveat it?
32:36
Can I caveat it?
32:38
I think I’m a very organized, you know, I’ve got myself spreadsheets and that type of stuff.
32:44
But when we’re, when you’re running a sales organization, that’s not the best way to to really consume the data, right.
32:51
So when used effectively, I think CRMS are amazing and critical to, to being successful.
32:58
Oh, no, I agree.
32:59
It’s I, I, I answer the question the same way.
33:02
You know, I think the people that hate CRM are the ones that are using ACRM that was not implemented correctly.
33:09
It’s not enabling them and their tool.
33:13
It’s more of a Big Brother reporting tool.
33:17
Get your numbers in by Friday so we can run our pipeline on Monday.
33:22
It’s not really helping me do my job.
33:24
So if, why, why would I embrace it, right?
33:27
It becomes a check the box.
33:29
Yeah.
33:30
And so that’s the wrong way to do CRM.
33:33
What’s your favorite thing about CRM?
33:37
I think a lot of times it tells you what you don’t know if you again use it effectively.
33:42
I think especially when you’re dealing with larger enterprise level customers, the the buying, you know, the cycle, the self process, the just this sheer, you know, it’s funny, I used to ask, well, who’s the signer?
33:56
I would ask my sales reps, right?
33:59
They may know the signer, they may know who actually physically signs the document.
34:02
They did they know who influenced that?
34:04
Did they know what role this person in the company played in the buying process?
34:08
And if you’re capturing that type of information of the CRM, I think you can really better understand how to win the business and if you’re even on the, on the playing field, right, to win the business.
34:21
And so I think it would, when I would ask questions, it was like, oh, I hadn’t thought of that, right?
34:26
Because they hadn’t filled it out in into the CRM, but they hadn’t really thought to even ask it.
34:32
So we were a lot of times able to put our questioning strategy with the customers really, I guess more thorough and put together based on the information they knew would be required in the CRM.
34:47
And so, and then once we did that, it allowed for more productive conversations back in the office of, you know, where do we sit, What are the next steps?
34:55
Because they had asked the right questions and obtained the right information.
34:58
Yeah, I, I’d love to ask this question to leaders just to see how they’ll respond.
35:07
But I’m really big on a why message when it comes to technology, especially CRM.
35:13
Why do we have this?
35:14
Why is it important to the company?
35:15
Why is it important to me as a leader?
35:16
And why it should be important to you as the individual expected to use that?
35:22
Do you have a why message for your team when it comes to CRM?
35:26
So one would be the, it may tell you what you don’t know, right?
35:31
Because it reminds you, did you get this piece of information?
35:33
Did you ask this question?
35:34
Sometimes it’s what we don’t ask is what loses the deal, right.
35:39
I anything that I try to and I use this in all aspects of life, but I want someone to do.
35:45
I always try to think of the Wytham what’s in it for me and obviously what’s in it for them.
35:50
And so when I’m trying to convince them, you know what, what’s you know why it’s what value they would see from it.
35:59
First of all, they’re not if I, if they’re effectively completing all the information they need in there, which another topic, sometimes it’s analysis paralysis, right?
36:08
Because there’s too much.
36:10
But if you can really as the leader, drill down on the pieces of information, the fields you need completed so that you can have a productive conversation.
36:17
If they’re doing that, it’s less me, you know, micromanaging of what’s going on in this account, where do we stand?
36:23
So if there’s a lot better communication between me and the sales Rep, because they are, I don’t have to ask as many questions.
36:29
They’ve already given me the information, but it allows us to understand the state of the business when you get into the things like the reporting, the dashboards and you know, you can BS and put in flop if you want.
36:41
But if, if you really want to truly be successful and I would want to hire a team of, of individuals that do desire that, you know, this is going to tell you, you know your win ratio like your average days to close.
36:53
So you’re going to back into the number of even the amount of touches you need a day, whether it’s phone calls or LinkedIn messages, whatever it may be prospecting exercises, right.
37:03
You’re going to be able to back into that number based on the the number you want to hit cell wise, revenue wise using the CRM tool, if you’re using it effectively.
37:13
So it takes the guesswork of what should I be doing today?
37:17
Yeah, I mean, it’s pretty prescriptive.
37:18
Hey, if you want to hit this based on the activity and your close ratio and you know, the average days to close, this is what you need to be doing today.
37:27
So I guess my why for them is, you know, let this really help you structure your day and stay organized so that you can achieve those numbers you want to hit that allow you that next step.
37:38
And I used to do vision board exercises.
37:40
Look, it’s not that $10,000 a month quota.
37:43
What does that $10,000 a month quota get you?
37:46
You know, and maybe them do a vision board, maybe it’s taking their family on a cruise, maybe it’s that, you know, new watch or new car, whatever it is.
37:54
But, you know, being able to go all the way from that vision board exercise back to putting this information into the CRM.
38:02
If you can show that lineage, it it’s powerful.
38:06
And it, it, it became less of a heavy feeling after Sierra, you know.
38:10
Oh yeah.
38:10
Because, yeah, they had, because they wanted to know how many calls I need to make to hit, you know, hit that number to get that whatever it was.
38:17
Yeah.
38:17
You got to connect the dots.
38:18
So there’s so many different ways to do that, Holly, we’re at our time here.
38:21
It always goes by so fast.
38:23
Yes, yes, thank you so much for coming on sales lead.
38:26
Doug, if people want to reach out, connect with you, they want to learn more about Cypher, What’s the best way for them to do that?
38:33
Sure.
38:33
So LinkedIn, as I said, I’m, I’m going to be on a, I’m on a mission in 2025 to do more LinkedIn.
38:40
So Holly B Hunt, I’m on there.
38:43
I also have a website where I some of the things I mentioned with resilience and some of the other lessons being vulnerable.
38:49
I blogged about that a good bit.
38:51
So some of the content I referenced at Holly B Hunt, just myname.com.
38:55
Awesome.
38:56
So if you didn’t catch that, no worries.
38:58
You can get all of that in our show notes at impellercrm.com/sales Lead Dog where you’ll get this episode of Sales Lead dog, but all our hundred plus episodes.
39:08
So be sure to check that outreach out, connect with Holly.
39:12
Holly, thank you again for coming on.
39:14
Really appreciate it and welcome to the Sales Lead Dog pack.
39:18
Thank you.
39:19
I’m very excited to be a part of it.
39:22
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39:30
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39:33
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39:43
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