Welcome to the Sales Lead Dog podcast hosted by CRM technology and sales
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process expert Christopher Smith. Talking with sales leaders that have separated themselves from the rest of
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the pack. Listen to find out how the best of the best achieve success with their team and CRM technology. And
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remember, unless you are the lead dog, the view never changes.
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Welcome to Sales Lead Dog. My guest today is Jerry Miller. Jerry is the
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founder and CEO of Cloud Ticity. Jerry, welcome to Sales Lead Dog. Thanks, Chris. It’s great to be here.
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I’m excited to talk with you today. Uh, tell me a bit about Cloudicity. So, we started Cloud Ticity 14 years ago
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with the sole purpose of helping healthcare organizations successfully leverage cloud. Uh that’s transformed
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into a uh significant area of business where we’re helping providers, payers,
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health tech companies, governments from federal, state, local, academic medical
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centers, research organizations leverage the power of cloud technology to forward their mission and help uh with better
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clinical outputs, uh better economics, and just generally making the world a healthier place.
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Yeah, that’s awesome. That’s a great mission. What was the idea behind I mean how did you what was the idea behind hey
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I need to start this company but what did you see in the marketplace that gave you this this mission?
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Yeah there were a few things around 14 years ago there was very little digitization of health records. A health
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record meant that your doctor had a manila folder behind the receptionist and if you needed to send your health
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information somewhere else that person would have to fax it over several around the time that we started
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Congress had passed a law requiring the digitization of health data
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and they did that in two phases. Uh part phase one was the carrot. So, Congress
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actually allocated $28 billion of funding to provide incentives to help
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primarily hospitals implement electronic health record systems. Uh, which later turned into fines for not having done
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- So, in the matter of a decade, EHR adoption, electronic health record adoption went from 2% to 98%. So, we had
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this mass digitization of health data. Uh, the second thing was what do we do with so much health data? So, how do we
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collect and operate on so much health data? And all of a sudden, cloud
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computing was coming into being. And so, what used to be a massively expensive
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and and technologically challenging problem of collecting so much digital health data became almost commoditized.
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And at the same time, cloud computing allowed us to spin up supercomputers in the sky and analyze these vast
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quantities of data, which allowed us then to engage with consumers through these devices that everybody has. So
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those three factors combined and made a business which was actually initially funded by that $28 billion of
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congressionally allocated funding a viable business. And the beautiful thing was about it is it helps people get
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healthier. And so the core vision of Cloudity has always been helping every human on earth get healthier through the
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work that we do. And we suddenly had the means and the budget to do it. The business idea dropped into my lap and I
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couldn’t say no. Oh yeah. Yeah. What are you seeing in the marketplace today that’s giving you
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motivation and continuing to strive on your mission? Well, technology continues to evolve.
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Governments continue to invest in healthcare. We’re understanding more and more the full cycle of health care,
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which it doesn’t actually start with curing for a sick person. That’s actually sick care. It’s providing data
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to people to allow them to eat healthier, to live healthier. Before we started this podcast, I’m still standing
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here, but my treadmill is running. So, we walk all day and it’s it’s a healthier way of life. But the big
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difference today and what makes me so excited about tomorrow is AI and the
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affordability of it. uh as we continue to invest in cloud technologies,
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layering artificial intelligence on top of that and imbuing that with all of these disperate data sets that
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healthcare brings, clinical data, genomic data, behavioral data, uh demographic data, we’re able to
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continuously provide monitoring that helps people minute by minute by minute live healthier lives. So we can avoid
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the sick care system, but once they do get sick, we can help them get healthier
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quicker with better accessibility to data, better indicators, and better
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ability to understand what’s going on patient by patient. That’s awesome. I love that.
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Yeah, it’s such a huge topic. I mean, because it it’s, you know, it’s central to everyone’s life at at some level.
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It is, you know, and you just it it Yeah. So having this information, having
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this ability to to improve, that that’s huge. Yeah. Jerry, when you look back over your
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career, you’ve had a fairly diverse career. What are the three things? You had to boil it down. What are the three
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things that have really driven and led to your success? That’s an interesting question. I would say number one is passion for whatever I
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- I I get an idea in my head and I become passionate about it. And so I I
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don’t approach anything with less than 110% ferocity. I’d say the second thing is probably tenacity. I like to do
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things that people haven’t done before. My favorite thing that you can tell me to motivate me is, well, that can’t be
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done. Nobody’s ever done that. So, tenacity is really required to break
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through some of these things and and just continue to go and go and go until you get it done. And the third thing I
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would say is courage because it it it’s really scary to go and do things that have never been done before. And I think
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a lot of people confuse courage with fearlessness. Courage is not fearlessness. Fearlessness is reckless. Courage is the
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ability to operate in the face of fear. So every day I do wake up afraid. The stakes are super high. But I like to
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think that I can operate in the face of fear. And I I would say those are the three sort of consistent characteristics
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that that have helped me break through some pretty big challenges. Oh yeah. Being an entrepreneur, if
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you’re not tenacious, Yeah. you’re going to have a hard time, you know? I mean it’s cuz you just don’t
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know what’s going to hit you, what’s coming out of left field. Yeah, for sure. And no matter how much you think you’re
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preparing and whatever, there’s always stuff that pops up and you just have sometimes you just have to put your head
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down and just start pumping the legs and just go just keep pushing forward. Yeah. Yeah. I think the Eagles call it the
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tush push. You know, everyone’s just getting in the bomb. We’re just going to That’s right. We’re just going to We’re just going to We’re just going to push forward as hard
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as we can. Some days you have to just put your head down and grind. Yeah. Yeah. So when you were starting
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out your career, what was the vision you had at that time, you know, for where you thought you would be now?
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I thought I would be a struggling jazz musician. You’re not the first musician person or,
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you know, person who had the vision of being like a musician of some type on the show. Yeah. Yep. I pictured myself drinking coffee
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in some smoky cafe playing jazz or composing. So very different from how
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things turned out. Yeah. Yeah. So what happened to start you on this journey that to where you
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are now? You know, everything that has been reasonably successful in my life has
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been the result of a happy accident. I feel like I’m the luckiest guy on the planet. I think that you need to be
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receptive receptive to opportunities that drop in your lap because the universe or providence or whatever it is
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you call it puts nuggets of gold and opportunity in front of us day after day after day. And I think many of us just
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kind of walk by them. So I I am very lucky, but I think much of it has been being receptive to the opportunities
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that pop up that are unexpected and diverge from the path that I thought I
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would be on. So being able to accept a diversion of where my life is going and
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try a new path when an opportunity arises has probably been a consistent
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factor. that explains a lot of the different things that I’ve done throughout my career. But that the the
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accidental discovery of of an opportunity has been probably the the
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the single biggest factor in in my career. It it’s so it’s it’s having that
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willingness to or I don’t know if it’s willingness but having your eyes open to opportunity.
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Yeah. just being open to opportunity to see things and then not a lot of people
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see opportunity but not everyone’s able to act on opportunity. Yeah. You know, to me that’s really the key is
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being able to act on opportunity and and not everyone is going to pan out. So, you got to be willing to take a
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shot. Hey, we’re taking a quick break to thank you for listening to and supporting the
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that like button and make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss any future episodes of Sales Lead Dog. Okay, let’s
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get back to this episode of the Sales Lead Dog podcast. And many of those shots will fail and
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not not take it personally. Just, you know, figure out what you’re going to learn from that and take that learning
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into your next job. Oh, yeah. It that it that’s the tenacity part of it, too. It’s uh
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Yeah. When I I started my first company, I was 23. It took me three years to get to revenue.
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Everybody in my I come from a very large family. Everyone in my family laughed at me, thought I was crazy. Yeah.
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What do you know about starting a business? I mean, like, I know nothing, but I’m going to do it. I’m not going to
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let what I don’t know stop me from doing what I want to do. I’ll figure it out. Exactly right. Yep. Exactly right.
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Yeah. Yeah. So, what was your first big aha moment, you know, in your career to
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where you’re like, I’m really on the right path here? Probably technology. You know, I was
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initially I was a musician and that that was my my course. But even when I started my first business, which was a
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recording studio back in the mid 1980s, the whole studio was run by computers.
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So what I didn’t realize at the time was my real passion was technology. And all
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the way back in sixth grade, I was programming computers, green bar kellipype terminals with acoustic
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coupler modems and dialup like with the literal dialup like rotary dialog. And
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so the affinity for computers and just sort of this unrelenting curiosity about
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technology and the willingness to fail and fail and fail and fail to learn
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something new has been a consistent factor across a pretty diverse set of
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companies that I founded. Yeah, it’s funny. I think you and I started about the same time and I I was
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planning on being an electrical engineer. Okay. And but I didn’t like anything about it
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other than the technology piece and then it dawned on me one day. Dude, you’re chasing the wrong thing.
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Yeah. You know, and so I always think this usually at a moment like that. So that’s
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what’s the hardest thing that you experience getting clouticity off the
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ground? What was that initial hurdle you had to get over? Was it personal or was it business?
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It was personal for sure. You know, I’ve exited from a number of companies already and I thought I was done.
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Yeah. And but you know, when the universe drops a beautiful opportunity in my lap, I don’t like to offend her,
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right? So, it was getting over that personal hump of am I going to really commit to
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making this business? Is this going to be a little lifestyle thing? Yeah. or am I going to do what it takes to build a business? And you know,
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having done this a few times, I know that what it takes is everything. You
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You can’t do 99.9% and be successful. And that means a decade of giving
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everything else up and giving yourself entirely to the mission of the business.
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If you don’t do that, you’re not ready. So making that personal commitment that at least another decade of my life was
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going to be committed to something outside of myself that that was the biggest hurdle it the
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the business stuff you know there’s every day there’s a challenge in the business but that that was by far
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secondary to the personal commitment that I had to come to. Yeah. How do you manage that balance
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between committing 100% to this mission that you have but you also have a personal life.
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Yeah. Absolutely. And you know during the time I got married I’ve got kids and you know so here’s the thing I I hear a
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lot the term work life balance and to me
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that implies that you’ve got work and you’ve got life and they are in opposition to each other and somehow you
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need to find balance. I don’t like that. I think in terms of work life integration. Work is a part of my life
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that I love. I love what I do. I leap out of bed in the morning and I’m as excited as I am to go to work today as I
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was 14 years ago when we were a start. And that doesn’t have to be in juxi juxosition to the fact that I can step
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off the treadmill and go make breakfast for my son and see him off to the school bus and do that maybe and get back on a
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conference call and if I’m working from Seattle or I’m working from a beach in Thailand, that’s okay. So the ability to
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weave work as one of the threads into a larger fabric of life is a great thing
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for me. It is never a struggle to balance work and life because work is
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just a part of life to me. Yeah. No, I love that. Now, we had talked about, you know, before we hit
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record on this that one of the things you’re very passionate about is
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enablement. Yeah. Talk to me about that. Where did that originate? Where did that start?
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I don’t know where it started honestly, but one of my passions in life is
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seeing other people succeed. And you know, I do having experienced the luck
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of some success, I love to mentor young entrepreneurs. And you know, I I left
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college to start my first business. And so I don’t have a degree other than a PhD from the school of hard knocks. And
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if I can help somebody else not bump their head the way that I did, that’s great. Similarly with my employees, I
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love watching people do things that they never thought that they could do. And to give them the room and the guidance and
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the space to become somebody that they never thought that they could become. It’s great for the business, but it’s
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great for humanity to give people the opportunity to grow into somebody that
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they just never thought that they could be. Yeah. You know, that’s it’s funny when I I talk I’ I’ve done over 160 episodes of
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Sales Lead Dog. Oh, cool. And when I talk to people like you, one
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of the common threads, the most common threads is, hey, I didn’t do this alone. Yeah. A ton of help along the way.
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And so, I want to pass that forward. I want to pass that along to others. Absolutely.
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And it is such a great feeling. I You talk about coaching entrepreneurs. I love coaching and educating and and
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doing that. It’s such People ask me how I recharge my batteries. That’s a huge part of how I recharge my batteries.
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Right. Right. And it’s I I get a feeling you’re the you’re very similar to that. Yeah. It’s you know, having experienced
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some financial success, you know, you and and and also getting a bit older myself. Yeah. You know, you get to the point in
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life where you start to think about what am I here for and what am I going to leave and the ability to just if I can
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just it’s so cliche but just leave the world a bit better than when I got here
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then you know I’ I’ve sent the ripple out in the universe that’s that that I made a difference and you know we think
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about I I led an exercise at a company offsite we recently had and I asked
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everybody what’s their greatest fear and mine is relevance. Mine would be
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finishing clo like closing my eyes for the last time and not knowing that I made a difference. And so this constant
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striving for relevance, a big piece of that is you got to lift other people up and you got to show people that they can
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be more than who they thought they could be. That that’s that’s a key piece of what drives me.
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Was it always that way for you or is this something that evolved for you? Maybe it was always there. I I I I don’t
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know that I always had the opportunity to do that, right? But being in a position where I I really
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can make a tangible difference in other people’s lives through mentorship and empowerment now now I can
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do it to a a greater degree whether or not it was there in a latent sense. I don’t know.
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Yeah. What advice for you do you have for someone that says, “Hey, I need someone like Jerry in my life.” What
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advice do you have for them? I I mean I’m not so great honestly, but I mean you know people everybody has
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something to off like my my my advice just in general is stop and listen here
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and there because you can get tidbits of help from anybody and if you pause and
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calm yourself and listen you’d be amazed at who you can connect to. I find that a lot of people have two modes. they’re
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speaking or they’re thinking about what they’re going to say next. And if you can back yourself out of that
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and really really be present and listen to those around you, you’d be amazed at
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what you can learn. No, it’s very true. I’ll do a little experience share for the listeners. When
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I first started the podcast, I was so nervous about what my next question I got to what’s my next question I’m going ask this person. I realize what I’m not
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listening to the person I’m talking to. And I’m like, that’s crazy, you know? So, it’s like calm down. have a
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conversation. Just shut up and listen. Yeah, it’s it I mean it sounds so trit again, but shut up and listen is one of
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the greatest piece. I wish somebody had taught that to me when I was a younger brasher version of myself.
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Yeah. Yeah. You know, one of the things somebody told me too, I was talking to an entrepreneur earlier in my life and
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and he’s like, “Chris, if you want to help, just ask.” Yeah. You’d be amazed how many people will say
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yes. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and and when I started this podcast, I didn’t know anything about doing a podcast.
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Yeah. And talked to a friend. He was like, “Oh, I know some people that have done podcasts. I’ll connect to you.” Every one of them. Sure, I’ll talk to you.
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Yeah. And I mean, it’s like it helped me. It saved me so much pain talking to these people like, “Oh, don’t do this. Don’t,
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you know, do this. Don’t try that. I I wasted so much money and time on that.” You know, it that that’s invaluable when
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you’re trying to get things launched. Oh, it’s amazing, isn’t it? Yeah, it really is. Yeah, absolutely.
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And everybody, we have a tendency to think like, “Oh, but we’re different or this, nobody’s experienced what I’m experiencing,
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right?” Yeah. You’re wrong. No, no, no. Yeah. There are people that have been out
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there and worse. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Lose the pride. You don’t know everything.
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Yeah. Listen, I I I love to learn. I learn from everybody every single day.
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Yeah. You just you have to open yourself to it. Right. Right. How did you build the culture at Cloud Ticity? Because I know
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that to really be successful, it’s not just driving forward, it’s creating a culture around your mission. Can you
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talk to us about that? Yeah, it’s a really good question. So, I think a lot of CEOs build a culture deck
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and they don’t really build a culture. And the way that they do it is they go into the woods in a cabin for a weekend
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and they come back on Monday morning with a 250
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slide deck and they go here’s our culture and you know then they try to mold people into that and we didn’t do
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that at Cloudity when we were very small like we you know it was just me and then another person and when we were maybe
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four people we were really focused on this vision of helping every human on earth get healthier.
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and something that we were doing was working and we didn’t we didn’t really question it. We just did it and did it
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and did it and we were growing and things were going well and at a certain point we realized that things were
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probably going to work for us and that we were going to scale and we started to wonder what is it that we’re doing that
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is working so well so that we can actually bottle it and make it scale.
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Yeah. So we brought in a friend of mine who was an organizational consultant and she spent months interviewing us and our
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customers and our vendors and our partners and everybody around us and she went and built the deck and came back
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and said but it wasn’t what we should have as a culture. It was what does it
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what is it that makes us work? And every day, every employee that we hire on
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their first day, first thing is they have a conversation with me personally where we go over our eight cultural
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principles and we talk about why what we do works. When we do our reviews, it is
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how are you aligned with these culture? We hire according to culture. On the rare occasion that we have to fire, it’s
22:42
because of culture. When we give high fives and shoutouts to people, we align it with here’s the cultural principle
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that this person exhibited. So everything comes back to the culture and
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it’s the culture, the original magic sauce that was working that we
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just discovered. Yeah. I tell you that hiring to culture. Yeah.
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Uh when I learned that one transformative. Yeah. It completely changed everything about
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how we hire. Yeah. and and how we engage our clients. I mean that that’s why I asked the question cuz I figured you had a really
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good story there and it it is absolutely critical and and uh because you want you
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don’t want robots, you don’t want autonoms, you know, you want you want people that can bring their special
23:31
talents and abilities, but you need everybody moving in the same direction in the same way, you know, and having
23:38
that that clear focus on culture where it’s truly embedded in the organization and not just a poster on the wall,
23:43
right? That’s what it takes. Yeah. And it’s, you know, we we really
23:49
value diversity and so we’ve got a wide variety of backgrounds and perspectives and so but when you have such a diverse
23:56
group of people, what is it? What’s the common thread that ties them together and unifies them? And that’s the
24:03
culture. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Did you have any have you hit any snags or or I don’t know if
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necessarily roadblocks but some issues along the way where like hey maybe we need to make some adjustments here.
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Yeah, every day. Every day it’s a micro adjustment and we’ve been through some, you know, macro adjustments of course.
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When we started, we built systems, healthcare systems for the cloud, right?
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And then our customers came back to us and said, you know, this cloud thing, it’s it’s really different than our data
24:34
center. Can you manage it for us? So, we realized that managing cloud was
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probably a better business for us than building software cloud. And so we pivoted around that, right?
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And then we realized that you can automate that. It’s not a manual effort. It’s really a software problem. And so
24:51
we pivoted around that. So as opportunities have arisen, we’ve been
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pretty nimble at pivoting around those. I would say it’s less roadblock oriented and more opportunity oriented.
25:04
Yeah. Yeah. What impact has that had on longevity of people in your organization, people sticking around?
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Both actually. Some people have, you know, really enjoyed that fast-paced
25:15
nature and the ability to continuously be at the forefront of the market. And some people at points of pivot said, you
25:22
know, I signed up to do something different and I think, you know, my time here is included and and either outcome is okay. We we
25:28
support people in in what they want. So, yeah, it’s affected longevity on
25:34
both sides. Yeah. And that’s and that to me is should be expected that you know that people grow, people change
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and and that’s part that’s to me that’s a success you know that if people are getting to the point where they feel
25:46
comfortable to expand and go on and chase other opportunities that that’s a win-win.
25:52
Yeah. Absolutely. But you can’t hold on to everybody forever. And it goes back to that
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empowerment and that growing. Yeah. Like I if if somebody graduates from cloudity moves on to bigger and better things
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because we didn’t have the headroom for them, right? That would mission accomplished from my perspective.
26:11
Yeah. Exactly. I love that to graduate. Yeah. That cuz I I think people need to think about it that way
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because this whole thing about enabling people is meaning they’re growing. They’re going in directions that you may not be able to support,
26:23
but that’s okay. Absolutely. Yeah. What’s your favorite thing about your job? I just paint everything. I
26:29
mean, every single day I walk into a playground and I get to pick which piece of equipment I can play.
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I love that. Yeah, I love everything about it. Yeah, that’s terrific. You know, there there’s hard stuff.
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Obviously, it’s a job, right? You know, but the good so far outweighs the bad. I
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can’t even begin to tell you. How do you deal with the hard stuff to where it’s not bringing you down?
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Spend time with my family. Yeah. when you know being being a CEO is hard, right? Like I got a staff of people that
27:03
I’m responsible like they they rely on me for their mortgage and for their car
27:08
payments and their kids tuition, their groceries, and I got customers that rely on me for their businesses. We’ve got
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more than 100 million people’s protected health information under our stewardship. They rely on us. And you
27:21
know, the dirty secret about being a CEO is you don’t know everything. Yeah. And so sometimes you have to make
27:28
a decision and you don’t really know the right answer and so so much is weighing
27:34
is riding on that decision and so that becomes hard and you have to do it with
27:39
a smile on your face because you certainly don’t want to get on an airplane and the captain looks worried.
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So, you know, and so there’s there’s a bit of pressure that comes with that. And
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when I can just step off the treadmill and go play a game of pool with my
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12-year-old or go cook dinner with my wife, that steam just blows right off.
28:01
Yeah, that’s awesome. That’s awesome. Where do you see the future going with technology and healthcare and just AI
28:07
and how this is all going to come together? That’s everybody. That’s all they ever hear in my world is AI. AI.
28:14
- Yeah, we’d have to schedule another podcast, but I I mean, you know, succinctly, it I I mean,
28:22
well, let me narrow the question for you. Yeah. How do you see it enabling the workforce
28:30
in your world? I think it’s a phenomenal enabler. Our world is going to it’s already changed and it’s going to change much more
28:36
dramatically than we’ve seen it. And so, we’re not going to have the halves and
28:41
the have nots. We’re not going to have people displaced by AI, but what we are
28:48
going to have is people who are willing to take the ride or and people who are not.
28:54
AI is just at the tip of the iceberg with how it is going to transform our
28:59
lives. AI was a just sort of a trained parrot. At first they call it a
29:06
stochcastic parrot because it’s just you know it connects words but now it’s
29:11
connecting systems and it’s connecting people and it’s to be able to do things
29:16
on our behalf as we begin to you know if you think about what happened when we moved from abacus to slide rule to
29:25
calculator to computer those are not incremental leaps those
29:30
were exponential leaps and AI is just continuing that trend. So for those that
29:38
get on the bandwagon and really understand that they can give up some degree of human toil and leverage the
29:46
incredible flexibility and speed of AI and it’s going to keep growing and becoming more and more capable. I’ve
29:53
never been more excited about a technology. The flip side is it’s terrifying. We have to make sure that we
29:58
build security protocols and management protocols and all of the things that are necessary for really powerful
30:05
technology. But as we harness it and work our way through some of those
30:10
potential challenges, the world in 10 years is going to look so different than what it looks like
30:16
today. And I couldn’t be more excited about that. Yeah, that’s wild. Let’s shift topics a
30:21
little bit. CRM, do you love it or do you hate it? It was just the most necessary evil. Yeah, I mean, you know, we need it, but
30:28
I spend way too much time managing it and dealing with all the things that are
30:33
wrong with it and trying to keep data up to date and paying lots of money for it.
30:39
So, I I love it for what it does, but I hate it for what it is. Yeah. So, what’s the thing you love the
30:45
most about it? Contrast that with It sounds like the I have an idea what you’re going to answer for the thing you
30:50
hate the most about it. Yeah. I mean, what I love the most about it is I’m especially weal about AI, you
30:57
know, I can use AI now to really have conversations with my CRM data and
31:04
that’s a cool thing. I’m not constrained to static reports and I can ask questions of my data now. I love that.
31:10
It gives me deeper insight into my business than I’ve ever had. But I still hate it because it like my data aren’t
31:16
clean and they’re out ofdate and I’ve got stale data. It still relies I’m
31:23
relying on people to update things so I never know if my forecast is accurate or not, right? It’s fragile
31:30
and that’s what I hate about it. Yeah, I just presented at a conference last week and the first and it was on
31:37
serum shins and the first major main slide of the presentation was data. it
31:43
is your foundation and as we’re moving towards the advent of of AI, leveraging AI within our tech
31:50
platform. Oh yeah. It’s going to put a giant spotlight on your data. Uh because if hey, if I’m a I’ve got
31:57
this great tool AI, like you’re saying, I want to start getting deep insight into my business. Yeah.
32:02
Garbage in, garbage out. Absolutely. You know, it’s only going to be as good as the data you have in there.
32:08
And so my message is start paying attention to your data. Start getting your data cleaned up, start putting the
32:13
protocols around it, whatever you need to do. Yeah. To begin truly treating your data like
32:20
an asset. Yeah, absolutely. It it’s critical. And and what I really want to be doing is
32:27
building great stuff for my customers, not curating data in a CR. Yeah, exactly. I’m like, I don’t want to
32:33
be a data jockey in CRM. It’s not adding value, right? You know, I want to be adding value to
32:38
my customers and to my business. Absolutely. Yeah. Jerry, we’re at our time here on Sales Lead Dog. It’s been absolutely
32:45
awesome talking with you. It’s been fantastic. Thank you. If people want to reach out and connect with you, if they want to learn more
32:50
about Cloud Ticity, what’s the best way for them to do that? cloudicity.com. Terrific. He’s also on LinkedIn. I
32:57
recommend checking out his profile just so you get an idea of what he’s done in his career. It’s pretty wild. Thank you.
33:02
If you didn’t if you have any issues getting that website, not a problem. You can go to our show notes at impellerc.com/salesleadog
33:10
where you’ll get not only this episode but all our 160 plus episodes of sales lead dog. So be sure to check that out.
33:16
Subscribe so you get all our future episodes. Jerry, thank you so much for coming on sales lead dog and welcome to
33:22
the sales lead dog pack. Thanks Chris. It’s been a pleasure. Awesome.
33:28
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