0:01 Welcome to the Sales Lead Dog podcast hosted by CRM technology and sales process expert Christopher Smith.
0:09 Talking with sales leaders that have separated themselves from the rest of the pack.
0:13 Listen to find out how the best of the best achieved success with their team and CRM technology.
0:20 And remember, unless you were the lead dog, the view never changes.
0:26 Welcome to sales lead dog.
0:28 My guest for today is Eric Braden.
0:30 Eric is the managing partner for Braden Business Systems.
0:34 Eric, welcome to sales lead dog.
0:37 What’s up, Chris?
0:37 How you doing, man?
0:38 I am doing really well.
0:40 It’s been a wonderful week and I’m looking forward to the rest of it.
0:45 Eric, tell me your managing partner at Braden Business Systems, your last name is Braden.
0:49 Tell me a bit about the business.
0:52 Yes, the last name on the building.
0:53 Not a coincidence.
0:55 You know, my, my dad started our company in 89.
0:57 I’ll tell you a little bit more about that here in a second.
1:00 But we’re basically a managed technology provider here in the Midwest out of Indianapolis.
1:05 We serve nationwide about 10,000 clients coast to coast and really just got tired of hearing business leaders really struggle with technology kind of on their journey, so to speak, trying to achieve outcomes in their business and drive success and revenue growth, etcetera.
1:21 And technology kept getting in the way.
1:23 So we’ve crafted solutions to really help them achieve outcomes and really help facilitate their their missions and their vision.
1:30 So we do everything for manage IT services, copiers, printers, cybersecurity and the AI consulting, which as you can imagine, we’re pretty high demand right now.
1:40 Oh yeah, yeah, no, that’s freaking huge.
1:42 And in my world, AI is number 1.
1:46 I imagine it’s the same for you, followed by security.
1:49 Is that accurate?
1:50 100% and they kind of play on each other, not always in such a great way.
1:54 So right now we’re just trying to help SMB and some enterprise folks really lay the foundation and the pipes just on a secure environment to launch into AI and really do it the right way and understand the trade-offs that are in play.
2:08 Yeah, that’s so if you’re listening to this and you had your company has not dipped the toe yet into AI, start dipping your toe.
2:16 You can’t avoid this, but do it exactly how we said you got to start with security.
2:21 You got to start with looking at all your infrastructure, your data, is it secure?
2:25 Because once you start bolting AIAI on, you don’t want any unintended consequences from that, right?
2:32 Yeah.
2:32 And correct, a lot of folks will, I mean that run pretty large companies.
2:36 I’m not going to name their names just so I can remain friends with them, but they’re CEOs of 500 to 1000 person companies and they’re like, let’s just turn on copilot.
2:45 No, don’t do that.
2:47 And there’s there’s a bunch of smart reasons to say why, but bottom line is you don’t want access and every person in your organization have access to sensitive information in real time for obvious reasons.
2:58 We can get in some anecdotes about that, but the other reason why you want secure architecture is the open large language models.
3:06 When Sally or Susan is uploading your data to that free version, that data leaks out of your four walls and is open to the Internet and the public.
3:14 So you don’t want your corporate e-mail online and access to your competitors and everyone in the world.
3:19 You don’t want your data uploaded to the cloud and the Internet.
3:22 Same kind of concept.
3:24 But people aren’t really understanding that fully yet.
3:27 So that’s where we come in.
3:28 Yeah, that’s awesome.
3:29 And yeah, if you’re thinking about that again, reach out to a company like Braden because it’s it’s a can of worms if you do this the wrong way.
3:38 So Eric, you, I love your story.
3:40 You started out and you wanted to get into Wall Street, so you just started cold calling firms.
3:46 Tell us about that, that journey into private equity and and how it LED you to where you are now.
3:52 Yeah, no doubt.
3:53 Well, I didn’t, I didn’t cold call first.
3:55 I actually asked my dad, hey, you’re successful in business, right?
3:58 So you must know people on this thing called Wall Street, right?
4:01 And he’s like, actually, no, I don’t some.
4:03 But I know how to pick up the phone.
4:04 That’s how I started this company in sales.
4:07 You just call and call and call and you follow up and you follow up and you follow up.
4:11 And, you know, after realizing that, you know, I didn’t have it a sweet path to go to Wall Street, I picked up that phone and cold called my way literally onto Wall Street and finally got in touch with the HR director at Bear Stearns.
4:22 And the rest is history.
4:24 Yeah.
4:25 So when you look back on that, what lessons from that era do you carry forward into Braden?
4:33 Yeah, I would just say, you know, bet on yourself and maintain persistence.
4:37 I’d say persistence is required for success, right?
4:40 I mean, you’re not.
4:41 Nothing is up to a straight and.
4:43 Right in nature, nothing’s up to the right on a chart or an Excel file like I used to run on Wall Street.
4:50 You know, there’s pits and valleys along the way.
4:52 And that requires resilience.
4:53 It requires patience, and it requires some nose along the way.
4:57 It requires some calluses, so to speak.
4:59 When we lose a deal, it builds, you know, muscle memory to not maybe lose again or reflect on why you lost.
5:06 And that’s OK because the winds aren’t sweet either without some losses.
5:10 Oh, yeah, big time.
5:12 We have a quote from you.
5:14 Persistence opens doors, but accountability keeps them open.
5:19 Can you expand on that philosophy and and how it shows up in your leadership style?
5:24 100% there’s a lot of people that are good at marketing out there, including those in our industry who are really very good at hooking people into the pain point and whatnot.
5:33 But once you sign that contract, they don’t deliver.
5:36 So that is where we meet.
5:38 The rubber that hits the road is the long term partnership methodology at our company is my dad’s taught me basically and our culture is exceed expectations, bottom line.
5:47 So we’re accountable not only to each other internally because technology’s messy.
5:51 Let’s quite let’s face it, right, it’s not perfect.
5:53 We make it as perfect as it can be, but when there’s an issue, we resolve it, We follow up, we follow through, we do, we say we’re going to do and we do the right thing in all, in all points in our history.
6:03 We don’t even take on a client that we don’t believe that can be at the highest CSAT score, customer satisfaction score possible.
6:11 And they know that from me on downwards.
6:12 I was like, guys, do not even sell the deal.
6:14 We’re not going to be a good fit for that client.
6:16 Oh yeah, no, you just send yourself up to fail.
6:19 It’s like it can’t be winning at any cost because ultimately you’re going to lose, your customers going to lose.
6:25 And and it’s just a matter of time before that erodes trust in the marketplace, correct.
6:30 And, and our numbers speak for themselves publicly and internally.
6:33 And we share them, you know, publicly in nature.
6:36 And we we’re accountable in real time now.
6:38 And I love it because I used to say, take our team’s word for it.
6:41 Now I’m like, we’re scoring every day.
6:43 I get every single CSAT score to my e-mail inbox.
6:45 And if it’s not a 10, why isn’t it a 10?
6:47 Let’s go make it a 10.
6:48 And sometimes there’s misperceived, you know, communication gaps, but it allows us the ability to fill it the next time.
6:55 Oh, yeah, exactly.
6:56 That’s what it’s.
6:56 Well, you can’t be afraid to elicit feedback from your customers.
7:00 It’s the only way you’re gonna get better.
7:02 Yep.
7:02 And it, it really future proofs our relationship together.
7:06 So we actually actively solicit Net Promoter scores, CSAT scores as often as frequently as we can.
7:12 And in that effort to get better and make sure we don’t have blind spots or delusion of grandeur or we’re not meeting a need that needs to be met for our clients in mass.
7:19 So we we take that very seriously.
7:21 If there’s anything below 10, we’re addressing it.
7:23 And we’re, if there’s common threads or themes, we’re, we’re fixing those.
7:27 Yeah, hey, we’re taking a quick break to thank you for listening to and supporting the Sales Lead Dog podcast.
7:34 I want to take a moment and tell you about my book.
7:37 CRM Shouldn’t Suck.
7:39 If your CRM feels more like a black hole for data than something that actually helps your team sell, you’re not alone.
7:47 The book breaks down why CRMS fail for so many businesses and what you can do about it.
7:55 No fluff, just real strategies that work.
7:59 So go to crmshouldntsuck.com to order your free copy right now.
8:06 That’s right, we’re giving it away.
8:08 And while you’re there, take two minutes to check out the CRM Impact Score.
8:14 It’s a quick diagnostic that shows you how your CRM is really performing, where it’s helping you, and where it’s hurting you.
8:23 You’ll get a personalized report with clear, actionable next steps.
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8:33 We’ve also got blogs, videos, and a bunch of other resources to help you finally get the results you were promised when you bought your CRM.
8:42 And if you’re watching on YouTube, hit that like button and make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss any future episodes of Sales Lead Dog.
8:51 OK, let’s get back to this episode of the Sales Lead Dog podcast.
8:56 So you stepped into your dad’s business.
8:58 There’s a lot good and bad that goes along with with making that switch, that jump.
9:04 What was the biggest challenge for you in balancing the legacy of what he built with your vision for growth?
9:13 Yeah, no, no doubt.
9:14 I came in kind of after my career on Wall Street, You know, briefly I was an M&A banker at Bear Stearns and JP Morgan in Los Angeles, Zurich, Switzerland and primarily New York City.
9:24 I worked for private equity after that, made junior partner at a firm in the middle market and got to do about 70 transactions on the buy and sell side and variety capacities.
9:34 So I came in with a bit of confidence that I knew that I could take that skill set from a board level at those companies as well hiring and firing CEOCFOS and like Rd.
9:42 mapping journeys and growth strategy into our family business.
9:46 So I came with some confidence in that era, but also I would say the thing that was the toughest to balance was really the leap of faith and working with my own father, right, who I look to up to as my still my primary, you know, figure in the in the one my mentor.
10:00 You know, I love him to death That and you know, it’s just been the greatest gift that it’s worked out.
10:06 You know, it has been perfect along the way.
10:08 I think I’ve learned a lot.
10:09 He’s learned a lot.
10:10 I think balancing, you know, folks that have been here a long time.
10:13 We have, I think, 12 people that have been here over 30 years, if not more than that.
10:18 So many that are over 20 years, so many over 10 years, so many are over five years.
10:22 That’s probably the coolest thing is, you know, really the the testament of your culture is do people stay right and do they grow as well?
10:30 Like they’ve had to keep up and be augmented to the growth that I’m helping us, you know, propel us towards.
10:36 So it’s been fun.
10:37 Yeah.
10:38 So you talked about this a little bit, but I’d like to dive a little bit deeper.
10:41 Brayden is number one in Indiana for MSPs, top 120 nationally, which is that’s huge.
10:49 What do you think is truly differentiating you from other Ms.
10:54 PS?
10:54 You know, we work with a lot of Ms.
10:55 PS and it’s a highly, highly competitive industry, but it’s really tough to stand out.
11:03 How do you guys do this?
11:05 How do you stand out in such a competitive marketplace?
11:09 Yeah, I think it goes down to ultimately our core values.
11:13 I think they resonate with the folks in our marketplace.
11:15 And ultimately your reputation starts to flywheel itself if you do a good job.
11:19 So referrals are a huge thing for our company.
11:22 Also our legacy.
11:23 I didn’t touch on this yet, but my dad started originally in 1989 with the fax machine, pre Internet, pre e-mail.
11:30 If you’ve seen Pursuit of Happiness with Will Smith, basically my dad had to sell a fax machine or a little Eric wouldn’t eat.
11:36 I was 4 at the time when he started the company.
11:37 So I grew up in an entrepreneurial household and you know, had to bootstrap it.
11:42 And the only way to scale growth and impact is to do do what you say you’re going to do, Do it repeatedly, be reliable in the long run for your clients, and then they’ll lift you up over time.
11:52 I think that’s probably the biggest testament is that we actually do our job.
11:55 We say we’re gonna do a lot of MSPs make promises they don’t deliver on.
11:59 We only make the promises we’re gonna keep.
12:01 Period.
12:02 End of story.
12:02 That’s it.
12:03 There’s nothing more.
12:04 There’s nothing less.
12:04 We’re gonna do what we’re gonna say we’re gonna do.
12:06 We’re gonna do it every time.
12:07 Yeah.
12:07 That, you know, really resonates with me.
12:10 You know, in my world, I, I struggle with my business.
12:14 You know, we implement CRM, same thing.
12:17 It’s really hard to differentiate.
12:19 There’s a lot of companies out there that really are good with the technology.
12:23 They understand they’re technically really, really good.
12:27 And, you know, for me, I sat back and like, what is really making me different?
12:31 And the thing that struck me is nobody’s guaranteeing their work.
12:35 No one’s willing to stand behind what they say they’re going to deliver.
12:39 And I’m like, you know what, we stand behind the work, but I wasn’t telling anybody that, you know, like externally when I would talk to them like, no, we, there’s something broken, we’re going to fix it.
12:48 We don’t have failed CRM implementations.
12:52 And so it could be something as simple as that, but it’s to me, it just shocks me that more companies aren’t leading with that.
12:59 And I think it’s we, we operate from a land of abundance, meaning we have a lot of folks that want us to go help them.
13:06 We will only take on clients that we are a good fit for.
13:09 We will not force the square peg in our round hole or vice versa.
13:13 So we are very selective with making sure that what we’re going to deliver value on is our lane.
13:18 And we’re very confident that we’re going to deliver is what we can do the best of our ability to stay in that lane.
13:24 Because the murky waters of technology, those Gray areas can be quite large and vast, especially on the communication side of things.
13:30 And we want to do our best to make sure that that gaps narrowed to where we’re both going the same direction at all times to the best of our ability, right?
13:37 It is a give and take on both sides.
13:39 You know, you have to have customers that are willing to listen and, and respond when you’re telling them, hey, look, your baby is ugly, you’ve got significant issues, but we can help you.
13:53 You know, we can help this ugly baby turn it into a beautiful baby.
13:57 You know, that’s hard to hear for a lot of especially smaller businesses that where people it truly is their baby.
14:04 That could be hard to do.
14:05 So how do you how do you extend that throughout your organization and really make it part of the culture?
14:13 You know, what’s beautiful is I’m not the arbiter of information.
14:16 I can go steal from the best in the world and that’s Simon Sinek.
14:19 Start with why I had our whole company read this a few years ago.
14:23 It really resonated with me is that it’s always better.
14:26 Things always go better before you prescribe an outcome, even though the idea is probably, they’re gonna be likely the one in the outcome you’re gonna select for the client or internally, whatever it is.
14:37 Take that brief 3 to 5 minutes to explain why you’re going to recommend what you’re going to recommend before you recommend it and why from their perspective.
14:46 Why is this going to benefit them, their people, and not just be $10,000 and they’re going to see $10,000 to buy this new switch or computer or server or whatever it is?
14:57 Explain why from their perspective, not ours.
15:00 From their perspective, put yourself in their shoes.
15:02 You’re asking them to spend money.
15:03 Why are they doing that?
15:05 And and break it down to a non-technical conversation, unless you’re speaking to a technical person, then you can talk attack.
15:12 That’s fine.
15:13 But most people just want the brief explanation on why.
15:16 Why are you asking me to spend this money?
15:18 And there is a good why, it’s just we don’t take the time to explain it.
15:21 So that is, I’d say, drilled into, you know, our head, so to speak.
15:26 I’m turning into my own father, repeating things several times.
15:28 Now I understand why he does it because, you know, when you ask your kids to brush your teeth, mine still don’t do it on the first time.
15:34 So.
15:35 So I’m getting there.
15:36 But, you know, it’s just people require some repetition and you embed it in the culture at some point once you have that repetition.
15:44 Yeah, I, I’m a huge believer in what’s your why, you know, like you have to have that under and it’s in all aspects of your business, both internally and externally that nobody buys technology.
15:56 No one buys a, you know, really multi $100,000 potentially technology platform because they love technology.
16:05 They’re doing it because they’re looking for an outcome, a specific way to help their business.
16:09 And if you’re not connecting the dots for them, forget it.
16:13 So I think that’s a piece of our secret sauce is connecting the dots on a communication standpoint.
16:18 That’s just one example of that.
16:20 But we connect that from the first time they meet us to the outcomes we drive for them, we try to close the loop on and it’s true, right?
16:27 It’s just, I feel like there’s most people that are disconnected from that aspect.
16:32 And I think that’s huge.
16:33 I think that makes all the difference in the world’s communication.
16:36 Oh, it is.
16:36 It’s absolutely fundamental because they just want to know.
16:39 They don’t need a super complex explanation.
16:41 They just want say it to me in terms I can understand, where I’m, I can connect the dots in my own head and OK, this makes sense.
16:49 I, I, I’m gonna get to that place.
16:51 I want my business to be and I was the most guilty one in my past before I had this epiphany is like, hold on, Why don’t people understand what I understand at this moment in time?
17:01 Well, they got to catch up a little bit.
17:03 Not that they’re behind, but they’re in behind where where my mind is AT.
17:07 And that’s OK.
17:08 Take the moment.
17:09 It’s going to be worth it, I promise you, because then they’re going to buy in on their own idea and then the outcome.
17:14 And they own, they take ownership of that too, right?
17:17 So then they tie that it’s their idea as well as ours.
17:20 And it’s the right thing we’re going to do together.
17:22 Yeah.
17:23 In your about section of your website, you talk about the fears leaders face around technology.
17:29 Can you talk about some of those fears and how you address those in your sales process?
17:37 Yeah, we’re actually trying to take it before the first time appointment journey.
17:40 So in our marketing team, I’m really trying to identify what are those fears and pain points that the likely audience is experiencing, whether they’re with another MSP or they’re they’re have internal IT challenges.
17:52 And it really comes down to, you know, several categories of things for people.
17:57 It could be, you know, not feeling very confident in their cyber posture, right?
18:00 You see a lot of things on the news that happened.
18:03 You don’t want to be in the news in that regard by any means.
18:07 It could just be slow response time, lack of productivity, downtime for their employees.
18:13 It could be the lack of communication they’re getting from their, their MSP.
18:17 So another thing I haven’t mentioned yet is we provide a lot of strategy and road mapping with our MSP.
18:21 So we provide Rd.
18:22 maps for all of our clients.
18:24 Some are more robust than others, you know, others that are more enterprise level accounts, they might have a more robust frequency of Rd.
18:30 mapping together, possibly even weekly.
18:33 We’re meeting with their C-Suite and others might be, you know, 2 * a year, maybe quarterly, which may be a little bit overkill for an SMB, but they see a lot of value in the road mapping best practices.
18:44 And we also have folks that go out there on a regular basis and assess their environment every quarter, if not more frequently to uncover the red, green, yellow aspects of their environment to bring those top of mind.
18:57 We also help people with their cyber insurance policies, making sure they’re in compliance with those.
19:03 That’s a huge thing that would keep me up at night, certainly not being compliant, because what happens is that’s your light last line of defense.
19:09 And if you’re out of compliance and just simple example, you don’t have MFA on one server, the insurance policy will just deny your claim.
19:16 That’s it.
19:16 You’re out.
19:17 You pay all these, you know, hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars historically.
19:21 It doesn’t matter.
19:22 They’re going to keep your premiums.
19:23 They won’t pay when the ransomware hits.
19:26 So being compliant, people think just paying the premium protects them.
19:31 It does not.
19:32 It’s a 50% denial rate right now.
19:34 So that’s another thing.
19:35 You want to make sure you’re compliant with us or with somebody checking that that knows what they’re doing and don’t take, You know, I think we’re compliant as an answer.
19:43 Because you’re not.
19:44 No, Yeah, Yeah.
19:45 You kind of buried the lead there, 50% denial rate, 50%.
19:49 It used to be 100%, not denial rate, it used to be 0% and they used to accept anything.
19:55 Now they try to get out of it.
19:57 I mean, like any other insurance program you’ve ever been part of, health insurance is getting denied.
20:01 Cyber is no different.
20:02 And they’ll find any reason they they require forensics.
20:05 So they’ll go in and they’ll check logs, history, etcetera, and they will not approve the claim.
20:10 They try to get out of it.
20:11 Again, it’s 50% of the time these days.
20:13 Yeah, you have to protect yourself.
20:15 You absolutely do.
20:19 If a if a sales leader that’s listening today feels their team has fallen into mediocre or maybe transactional habits, you know, they’re becoming order takers.
20:30 In other words, what’s the first step they should be taken to shift to a more rebellious, community driven approach that we’re going to talk about the sales rebellion here.
20:41 I’m kind of team that up, but what what should I be thinking about to shake things up?
20:48 Yeah.
20:48 I mean, I think you’ve kind of buried the lead there yourself a little bit.
20:51 But, you know, we kind of, you know, meet myself and Dale Dupree.
20:56 You know, I’ll take very little credit here, but I reached out to Dale Dupree from the sales prior to the sales rebellion in 2018.
21:05 He was down in Orlando, FL at the time.
21:07 Hi Dale.
21:07 I know you’re going to see this buddy.
21:09 We just talked yesterday, but I’ll do my best to butcher the story.
21:12 You can fill in the gaps when I when I’m messed up here.
21:15 But yeah, I reached out to him when he was called the Copier warrior.
21:20 As you know, Brayden is in the copier industry.
21:22 We still are one of the largest in the country around copiers, printers, management services.
21:26 And I just thought it was so cool what he was building for his own personal brand, if you want to call it that.
21:32 Personal branding wasn’t a thing back in 2018.
21:34 It was certainly not in the copier industry and certainly not in B to B.
21:38 Quite frankly, there wasn’t these podcasts.
21:40 There was very little of this going on.
21:42 So he I thought was the most innovative, creative approach to make, I would say a boring industry at times.
21:48 Copiers, right, Making that fun, exciting, engaging.
21:51 And I’m like, I want to be sold to by this guy.
21:53 I want to be sold a copier by the copier word That would be cool rather than the opposite is here’s my business card.
22:00 My name is Eric.
22:01 Nobody wants to buy that and nobody wants to talk to a salesperson.
22:05 Whoa, whoa, sales.
22:06 Oh, hang up.
22:07 You know, there’s almost like kryptonite, like like, you know, Superman, so to speak.
22:11 So I just thought that was so cool.
22:13 I reached out to him actually cold.
22:16 We got on the phone.
22:16 I’m like, hey, what you’re doing translates industries, my friend.
22:20 Your philosophy on pattern interrupt marketing, You know, we coined some terms around it.
22:24 He made it an entirely new thing.
22:26 The crumpled letter.
22:27 The guy’s an absolute genius.
22:29 Highly follow the sales rebellion.
22:31 Dale Dupree, he’s a close friend.
22:33 But I mean, it’s going to change your life.
22:35 It’s going to change your business.
22:36 It’s going to change your results and actually make something work for once.
22:41 And at the end of the day, you do have to put in the reps You have to put in the volume.
22:44 You can’t just wake up and make 2 calls and hope for success.
22:47 But you can make those calls smarter.
22:49 You can give a reason why you’re calling.
22:52 That’s another sales rebellion terminology.
22:55 And there’s whole courses on this.
22:57 I’m not gonna bury the lead.
22:58 Check out the site and learn more there.
23:00 But there’s so many people, thousands at this point, who have tried that methodology and had massive success.
23:05 So I’d start there.
23:07 There’s other frameworks that I’d buy into, but that’s the one I’m closest to in our space that I’ve seen work.
23:11 Yeah.
23:12 And so the websites, the sales rebellion.com.
23:14 So we’ll give you that to you again at the end of the end of the show.
23:18 But the reason why I brought it up now is a lot of the MSPs we’re working with, they’re doing so much to generate leads for their business, funnel them to the sales reps to go out and engage with these people, but they’re not seeing results.
23:34 You know, I think too many sales reps.
23:36 Well, I sent them an e-mail that I tried calling them a couple times, they never responded to me and they give up as a sales leader.
23:42 What, you know, how do I shift that to where it’s like, guys, no, you got to keep after them.
23:47 You got to be, let’s go back to being persistent.
23:49 You got to keep following up.
23:50 How do you, how do you tackle that as a sales leader?
23:54 I, I think it all comes down to psychology and, and what I mean by that is try to put yourself in the other person’s shoes.
24:00 It’s unlikely the most important thing they’re working on at that moment in time.
24:05 So what I mean by that is how do you get in front of them to make it important to them?
24:10 We know what are the triggers that the pain points that they’re going through, the hardships that they’re facing, you know, the timelines that they’re dealing with.
24:18 What are the reasons why you’re reaching out?
24:20 Is it just because you want to sale that doesn’t work.
24:22 I’m sorry people don’t get sold something they buy into fixing their pain.
24:27 That is it.
24:28 You got to have the right psychological process towards sales and it’s got to be from a servant mentality, service mindset.
24:35 You need to be really truthfully, you got to ask yourself, do I have Commission breath or do I really want to serve this person on the other side of the room?
24:42 And the best sales people, they operate in that motion and they show up genuine that the person on their side, shockingly, they can tell the difference.
24:51 Oh, yeah, yeah, no, I can.
24:53 I, it’s funny, the people that call and they’ll start talking to me.
24:57 They, they tell me the wrong things about my business or they’ll mispronounce the company name or they’ll just say something wrong.
25:07 And I’m like, how much time did you actually spend researching me before you called me and asked me?
25:12 Just give my time, which is valuable to you.
25:16 It takes homework.
25:17 It takes some, you know, you got to put in the effort.
25:20 It comes down to like, do you really care?
25:22 Do you really have respectful for people?
25:24 Are you just trying to spray and pray for your own selfish means?
25:28 Right.
25:29 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:31 So that AI is I, I’m really, you know, I’m, I’m on on the CRM side of things.
25:36 And AI is really transforming CRM and selling.
25:42 What do you see as the positives to that and the negatives to that?
25:47 Lot of negatives.
25:47 There’s definitely some positives.
25:50 I think that it could help you create and go a bit faster, But I caution people to just go in and use that as their complete 100% filter.
25:59 I think it can help for my own personal journey, some examples I’m posting on LinkedIn more frequently.
26:04 I was taught by Dale Dupree years ago.
26:06 Thank you, Dale.
26:07 I mean, he’s a master of LinkedIn.
26:08 He does a phenomenal job.
26:09 He does it from the heart and he probably doesn’t even use AI.
26:12 Guy calling you out, Dale, let us know.
26:14 But but yeah, I I certainly use it.
26:16 I’m not a beast of a writer like he is.
26:19 So it’s just not my natural born skill set.
26:22 But it does help me take the concepts and reorganize them into a framework that works.
26:27 But I still provide the meat of the conversation.
26:30 You got to maintain humanity in sales.
26:33 Nobody wants to buy from a robot.
26:35 I certainly don’t.
26:36 I think that’s kind of terrifying that all these multinational corporations are going to just be robots we’re going to be sold to and we’re all going to be stuck in our houses.
26:43 I think at the end of the day, people want to be part of their community.
26:46 They want to go to Little League games.
26:47 They want to, you know, watch their kids grow up.
26:49 They don’t want to be, we don’t want to be in a world full of robots going back and forth, selling to each other.
26:54 So AI can help some velocity in regards to shots on goal with some scripted outcomes.
27:01 You can create it and make it a bit smarter, but don’t miss the human element.
27:05 It has to be injected into the sales process.
27:07 I really truly believe that 100% because you’re still selling to people, people with real problems.
27:14 And like I really, I completely like what you’re saying it.
27:17 It can really help you with velocity and maybe improving some skills that you’re weak at.
27:22 Like maybe I’m not the strongest e-mail writer.
27:25 So maybe if I get good at prompting, AI can help me craft an e-mail that resonates with my voice and my intent, but it doesn’t replace the human touch.
27:36 There’s no way, especially if you’re doing any kind of complex sales, you know, it’s just, there’s no way.
27:43 So how are you guys trying to leverage AI today as an MSP as a tool to differentiate?
27:50 Yeah, more ways than I can count, but some, some off the top of my head is we’ve integrated into our help desk.
27:56 So we’re driving faster Tier 1 ticket outcomes for clients.
28:00 So, you know, just for instance, onboarding, you know, 50 users at a time used to maybe take it 30 minutes to an hour per user.
28:08 Now it can be done in 3 minutes per user.
28:10 So that saves the client time and it saves US time, which is a win win.
28:14 That’s true, a true partnership outcome.
28:16 That’s just one example on our help desk at scale of saving hundreds of hours a month, right?
28:20 That’s one example.
28:22 We’re automating payables technology, so everything around accounting.
28:25 So rather than, you know, having people chase people for collections, there’s automatic AP is and AI around that.
28:31 We also resell that and help other operators.
28:34 That’s the other thing I want to say about Braden is we really do.
28:37 We’ve been doing business process optimization for years.
28:40 So we touch more than just the IT aspect of your business.
28:44 We really bring either ourselves or our partners in to solve any business challenge that you have.
28:49 And what’s crazy is now all businesses are technology companies, are they not?
28:54 Yeah.
28:54 Oh, yeah.
28:55 So, so I think that that is where we come in is it’s not just one aspect.
29:00 I think AI applications are like by business unit, if you will.
29:04 Our marketing department, you’re closer to that is used very heavily to, again, increase velocity.
29:10 But we remain human.
29:12 Yes.
29:13 Yeah.
29:13 That’s what it’s all about.
29:15 It’s, you know, what I love about is just the way it saves me time.
29:19 You know, me personally, the way I leverage AI as a seller as I can give better communications, you know, to my prospects, my customers in a very structured way very quickly so that I can move on with my day.
29:34 And they’re much faster getting very detailed information for me.
29:38 And so it’s a win, win both ways.
29:40 And to me, I think it’s finally allowing CRM to deliver on the promises that have been made for two decades around how CRM is going to really enable your sales team.
29:53 I think AI is truly going to deliver on that.
29:57 Yeah, it’ll be interesting.
29:58 I mean, we’re just starting to roll out some prototypes of some agentic AI, which are basically custom, I’d say robots or agents, if you will.
30:08 It’s an overused term to do specific applications within a business environment.
30:12 That’s early stages, but I do see that being in the next two or three years.
30:16 So anyone who’s on our road map will benefit from that.
30:19 That’s the other thing that you know, people are benefiting from is, again, AI readiness is step one.
30:24 Step 2 is helping us getting up on the AI road map.
30:27 Step 3 is to take advantage of the business process optimization that’s AI is used for.
30:32 Step 4 is going to be using a gentic AI in every aspect of your business.
30:37 So we definitely have a seat at the table.
30:39 We’re trying to drive that for clients and it’s been a blast.
30:42 Oh, it is, it’s to me that’s I’m sitting there going, Oh my God, I love everything you’re saying because that’s, that’s what we try to do with CRM.
30:49 It’s like what I’ve been trying to tell people for years that technology is a tool.
30:54 That’s all it is.
30:55 It’s not the be all end all, but if you get the right tools, they truly can empower your business, empower your people to add value and drive value for your customers, improve your processes.
31:08 And and there’s just so much you can do with technology to use it the right way, but you’ve got to be ready for it.
31:16 You have to have the right culture.
31:17 You have to have, you know, the the, the people side of things, the data side of things, security.
31:23 There’s a lot that goes into this to really be able to effectively use it.
31:29 I would agree, but I hate fear based selling.
31:33 But the bottom line is your competitors going to do it.
31:35 Oh yeah.
31:37 So either you, it’s going to happen.
31:39 This is very much the advent of the Internet.
31:42 It’s like if you don’t use the Internet, fine.
31:44 I think when this window is going to move a little more rapidly and you’re going to start seeing things change in your marketplace slowly but surely, but rapidly.
31:52 And I would at least start laying the foundational elements now.
31:56 Oh yeah, big time.
31:57 I, I tell people you got about a three-year window that the pace of change that I’m seeing around AI is like nothing I’ve ever seen.
32:04 You know, the shift to the cloud took about a decade.
32:08 AI is going to be at most three years.
32:12 You know, it’s probably going to be faster that the pace of things that are coming out and how quickly a sophisticated it’s become so quickly is just amazing.
32:22 And to me.
32:23 So that that opens up a lot of opportunities to really talk about outcomes as a seller, you know that.
32:31 And so how talk, I mean, it sounds like you guys are really aligned around that.
32:36 Was that something that you guys have always had or is that something you had to work towards?
32:40 I think we’ve sharpened our spear on that.
32:43 I mean, I think the more that I thought about it, we’ve been doing it for years.
32:46 I don’t know if we put it into the crystallized words like I’ve spoken, but we’ve done it since 1989.
32:52 My dad said it in the same way, in a different way.
32:54 It’s been a core philosophy.
32:56 I have his original sales letter that you wrote for the whole company when he started it basically by himself and that stuff that it reads just as true today with Amazon as it did competing with the guy up the street.
33:07 So it’s it’s basically says that customers are fickle.
33:11 They want what they want and we have to go above and beyond to give them what they want at all times.
33:17 It doesn’t matter whether the pace is faster, it doesn’t matter whether it’s AI, whether it’s robotics, whatever term you want to put on it, We have to rise the occasion to help Dr.
33:25 Outcomes for them.
33:26 You cannot sit back and rest on your laurels.
33:30 You know, you have to continue to be engaged.
33:33 You have to be willing to change to willing to grow and maybe into spaces you’re very uncomfortable right now it but that wheel always has to keep turning.
33:42 Did I summarize that well for you guys?
33:45 Oh 100% well said And and what I’m grateful for is just the amazing people that have helped us do that.
33:51 I mean, it takes talents from all walks of life, whether it’s, you know, a type, not that A is better than B, but like a type salespeople who are go getters and high energy to people behind a monitor and a screen that are protecting us, right, protecting our data from a cyber perspective.
34:07 And the AI consultants that you know, are on the cutting edge of implementing this stuff.
34:11 It takes talent from all streams and walks of life.
34:14 And that’s just what’s so cool about business is you got to work with all different types of people and drive outcomes for people.
34:20 It really does take a team.
34:22 Yep, you, I really get a a sense from you that mentorship, not only from your dad, but from other people have really played a large role in your development.
34:30 And I think to really be to realize those benefits of having those mentors, you have to become vulnerable yourself to listen to whatever they’re going to tell you.
34:39 What role does vulnerability play for you and continue to play for you as a leader of your business?
34:46 Yeah, no, I appreciate the question.
34:47 I mean, I think it’s it’s massive.
34:49 I feel like vulnerability and getting out beyond your fear limit is where growth happens, right.
34:55 So I think what’s been huge for me is joining the organization back in 2016 called YPO, the Young President’s organization.
35:02 It’s been almost a decade now.
35:03 I’ve been in that and that’s changed my life in more ways than I can count.
35:07 Some are confidential nature.
35:08 And what’s beautiful is that you’re meeting with another group of leaders who are running enterprises, whether they they’re billion dollar entities or, you know, $100 million entities, the size doesn’t matter.
35:18 But the challenges are similar that you face as a business leader and being vulnerable, like, hey, guys, I’m stuck on this.
35:24 Or girls, hey, I’m stuck on this.
35:27 You know, and those folks have gone through that in a different way or similar way and learning, not learning from them because you’re still going through a hard, you know, path.
35:36 But it gives you some calm and Peace of Mind.
35:38 Like there is a better side to this.
35:41 And it goes back to resilience.
35:43 Like there is no up to the right path.
35:45 There’s, there’s challenges along the way.
35:46 Anyone who says otherwise hasn’t been in business.
35:49 And I don’t trust that advice.
35:50 Yeah.
35:50 Yeah.
35:51 I, I, I used to be heavily involved in EEO here in Colorado and what early on people are saying, Hey, if you’re going to get the most out of this, you need to be able to get naked fast.
36:01 Just bare your soul.
36:03 It was really hard for me to do a very hard to make myself that vulnerable.
36:08 But once I did, that’s when I, I truly grew as a person really was able to realize and accept the benefits of all these people around me willing to share their own vulnerability with me and, and, and use that.
36:23 And then it was, it was so enabling for me.
36:26 It really is an incredible experience to, to, to go through something like that.
36:30 It is, it’s a shared kind of, you know, you’re sharing a journey with folks that, you know, like trust and respect.
36:37 And again, I, I’ve only cried a couple times to, I’m not going to get too much into that, but it’s where growth happens.
36:45 Like I said, emotional intelligence growth, being vulnerable, it makes you realize like it gives you confidence to some degree because it’s like, OK, they’re human too.
36:53 They’re not this, you know, billion dollar person with no problems.
36:56 They have challenges too, sometimes even more crazy.
36:59 Yeah.
37:00 So it’s right.
37:01 And you don’t feel alone.
37:03 It’s like, it’s like, God, I’m not the only one.
37:05 There’s so many people who have been down this path already and they made it.
37:09 So I should be able to as well.
37:11 Absolutely.
37:11 And that that allows me to transfer that energy and that fighting mentality, winning mentality, whatever you’re going to call it to my team.
37:17 It’s like, OK, we lost one or we got, we got punched in the face like Mike Tyson.
37:21 Now what?
37:21 Now what are we going to do?
37:22 Let’s go show what we’re made of.
37:24 Yeah.
37:24 We’re not going to lay on the mat.
37:25 We’re getting up.
37:25 We’re going to keep fighting.
37:26 We’re going to go.
37:27 We’re going to go on a winning streak.
37:28 Let’s go.
37:28 Yeah, that’s right.
37:29 How do we do that?
37:31 What are some of the things you do to motivate your your team?
37:36 I think the biggest thing is what you do every day can, can your team sense that you’re in the fight with them?
37:41 What are your habits?
37:42 Are you living your core values or is it just a message on the wall?
37:46 Bottom line, that’s what I try to do.
37:47 That’s probably the biggest thing to do.
37:49 You can you can give these dramatic speeches and all this, which I probably need to get better at personally.
37:54 It’s kind of when I’m on this podcast to learn this muscle a little bit better.
37:58 I’m facing my fears right now too, but it’s what you do every day.
38:02 How do you show up for people?
38:03 Do you spend time?
38:04 Do you respect the people?
38:05 Do you treat everyone in their organization equally?
38:08 Are you showing favoritism?
38:09 Whatever it is?
38:11 Are you authentic in your leadership, or are you full of it?
38:16 And I’ve seen both people sniff that out real fast, you know, because it’s like, you can’t be fake forever.
38:22 You know, eventually, you know, people are going to realize, oh, he or she’s just full of it, you know, and you’ve lost that credibility.
38:29 It’s hard to get it back.
38:31 Yeah.
38:31 Consistency, habits, leading by example, being human, it’s OK.
38:36 I am human.
38:37 I have issues.
38:37 I have vulnerabilities.
38:39 I have my weaknesses, too.
38:40 I think that’s the biggest thing from an EOS perspective that I learned years ago is how to get the people in the right seat on the bus and make sure that the bus is going down, you know, going the right direction.
38:51 That’s probably the biggest thing as ACEO is getting people in their zone of genius.
38:56 Said differently, their right lane, their right highest and true calling.
39:00 Do you get that right perfectly every day?
39:02 No, But you want to work towards that.
39:03 Yeah.
39:04 One of my favorite things to say now when people come to him and say, hey, Chris, we have this issue.
39:08 What should we do is I used to jump right in, like, oh, here, let’s do blah, blah, blah.
39:14 And now I’m like, I’m not sure, what do you think we should do?
39:18 It’s like, you know what, we’re never going to grow in scale if I’m always that bottleneck, you know, so you got to learn, you got to like, you figure it out.
39:26 Don’t bring this to me.
39:27 You give me, tell me what you think we should be doing, you know, and and maybe we’ll run with it, you know?
39:33 Yeah, that’s a, that’s a sign of leadership and learning along the way.
39:36 Because if you’re always the crutch.
39:38 I used to think this when I was younger on Wall Street.
39:41 And before that, I got my CPA, CFA, MBA.
39:44 I, I guess I’m good at taking tests, but I always thought having the right answer, the right knowledge was the most important thing.
39:50 But I’ve realized it’s all about who and empowering others to come up with their own solutions.
39:56 And here’s why they buy into the solutions.
39:58 If it’s just my idea all the time, they may not even understand the why or be bought into it.
40:02 So why am I trying to be in an ivory tower prescripting the outcomes when they’re closer to the situation?
40:07 Oh, 100%.
40:08 And you’d need that buy in because it’s like, oh, hey, well, Chris told me to go do this.
40:13 If it fails, well, that’s Chris’s.
40:15 He told me to do it.
40:17 It’s like it’s a great way to avoid accountability.
40:21 Shifting topics here a little bit.
40:23 Eric CRM, do you love it or do you hate it, man?
40:28 I think I’m leaning towards hate it.
40:29 Sorry, guys, it’s all right.
40:34 I think a lot of people say it’s a byproduct of their industry.
40:37 You’ve heard that a lot.
40:38 I know you have, I, I think some of the challenge you’re, you’re saying earlier, it’s just tough to align the different technology stack protocols that we have in our sales motion into a unified system.
40:52 People have tried in our space and again, we’re a bit unique.
40:55 We’re, we’re larger than most in the country.
40:57 We’re one of the top 100 in the country.
40:59 So we have unique challenges with all the deliverables that we serve 10,000 clients nationwide.
41:04 We have copier printers, we have meter collection, we have MSP, which is a tire, different tech stack with tickets and all that, let alone the AI automation happening too.
41:15 So we get our job done.
41:16 It just seems a little bit less unified than I’d like it.
41:19 Yeah, now that’s what we see.
41:21 And to me, that’s the shift.
41:22 That’s what I’m advocating for.
41:25 That CRM, when you do it right, should be the central hub of your business because the central focus of your business should be the customer, right?
41:33 Because that’s what’s going to drive growth.
41:35 And so right away, that means CRM should be the central hub, that single source of truth of anything around customer.
41:42 But with complex businesses, that means you got a bunch of different systems that you’re leveraging.
41:48 They still need to communicate, they still need to share information, and it still needs to be accurate.
41:53 And that’s not necessarily an easy, easy problem to solve, no doubt.
41:58 I mean, our team has solved it by APIs and duct tape at times.
42:03 I’ll be fully transparent on that.
42:04 But we get it done for clients and, and the clients don’t see this piece of the machine, if you will, but, and it doesn’t impact them, but it, it could be more efficient, right?
42:14 It can be more efficient, it can be more streamlined.
42:17 It could help our people be more effective at times.
42:20 That being said, I mean, we get the job done.
42:23 Yeah, I know exactly.
42:23 It’s like it could be band aids and what baling wire behind the scenes.
42:27 But as long as the customer is seeing, you know, their stuff’s correct, what they’re seeing is good.
42:32 That’s ultimately what matters.
42:34 But if you really want to have a revenue engine, anything you can do to improve that, to make all those cylinders file fire in synchrony and, and smoothly, it definitely helps.
42:48 Eric, I really appreciate the time you’ve given me today to Share your story of, of, of your firm and, and just everything you’re doing.
42:56 It’s just, it’s really is amazing.
42:58 If people want to reach out and connect with you, what’s the best way for them to do that?
43:03 Yeah, I would say find me on LinkedIn.
43:04 It’s Eric Erik Braden.
43:07 Braden.
43:09 So Eric Braden on [email protected].
43:14 If you’re going to e-mail me, hopefully you have a great editor.
43:17 Chris, I appreciate your time.
43:19 Yeah.
43:19 And if we also don’t forget about the sales rebellion, we’ll have all this information in the show notes.
43:27 So be sure to check that out.
43:29 Reach out, connect with Eric, check out the Sales rebellion.com.
43:34 You can get the show notes at impellercrm.com/sales Lead Dog where you will find not only this episode, but all the, I think over 160 episodes now of Sales Lead Dog.
43:44 So be sure to check that out and subscribe.
43:46 We greatly appreciate that.
43:47 So you get all our future episodes.
43:49 Eric, thank you so much for coming on the show and welcome to the Sales Lead Dog Pack.
43:55 Thanks.
43:55 It’s been a pleasure, Chris.
43:56 I appreciate your time, buddy.
43:58 Have a good day as we end this discussion on Sales Lead Dog.
44:04 Be sure to subscribe to catch all our episodes on social media, follow us on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram, watch the videos on YouTube, and you can also find our episodes on our website at impellercrm.com/sales Lead Dog.
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