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Welcome to the Sales Lead Dog podcast hosted by CRM technology and sales process expert Christopher Smith.
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Talking with sales leaders that have separated themselves from the rest of the pack.
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Listen to find out how the best of the best achieved success with their team and CRM technology.
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And remember, unless you were the lead dog, the view never changes.
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Welcome to sales lead dog.
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Today I have joining me Andrew Cohn of Metroid.
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Andrew is the executive vice president of strategic sales.
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Andrew, welcome to sales lead dog.
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Nice to be here.
0:40
Thank you for having me.
0:42
It’s good to have you here, Andrew.
0:44
Andrew, tell me a bit about Metroid.
0:47
Sure, sure.
0:48
Netsert is a global managed service provider in the IT space and I form what they call the Netsert innovation arm of that business.
0:56
My former company was a company called Evoke.
0:59
We are acquired by Netsert the end of 2021 and I was the CEO and owner of that company.
1:04
So we were focused on digital transformation, modern workplace experiences.
1:08
So Netsert Global managed service provider, we form the arm of the innovation service of Netsert.
1:14
I love that.
1:15
That’s my world.
1:16
I love.
1:16
To me, it’s a super exciting space to be in.
1:20
What are you excited about for 2025, the coming year?
1:25
Oh, that’s a great question.
1:27
I mean, every conversation I get into right now focuses around how can AI help enhance and enable our business.
1:34
And the innovation service is really precise and going after the small and medium businesses that we talked to.
1:41
It’s really targeted for that and how AI can help them enable their business to help improve the business processes and increase productivity and how how they can utilize it for better profitability across our organization.
1:53
So we really focus on leveraging AI and automation practical ways to enhance these kind of business outcomes for companies.
2:02
And we do that from the SMB space all the way to enterprise clients.
2:05
But the excitement now is just everything’s around AI obviously, but we really have the capabilities to deliver those kind of solutions in a practical and meaningful way.
2:13
That’s very cool.
2:14
That’s that’s, you know, if people, if you’re listening to this and you’re not taking a look at any of what he just talked about, you should be because it is the coming wave.
2:24
Andrew, when you look back over your career, you know, as an entrepreneur now as part of a a very large organization, what are the three things that have really driven and LED to your success?
2:38
Yeah, that’s a good question, Chris.
2:39
I mean, we’ve always, when you start your own business, I’ve always had the entrepreneurial spirit.
2:44
And, you know, I didn’t go to Business School.
2:46
So I’ve really banged my head against many brick walls along the way.
2:51
So I have a lot of mistakes that I learned that actually if I could have went rewounded and did it again, I would have had a much better outcomes going forward.
2:58
But all those bad events or you know, bad outcomes actually led to success because I kept persevering and and kind of, you know, going through those negative outcomes to help drive towards a successful end outcome.
3:14
So what I’ve learned from all this is never give up on those kind of when things are coming external events and when you start doing like a SWOT analysis, the things that you can control, you have a strength of what your capabilities are, which are your character are, which are capable of delivering.
3:28
But the external things, the threats to your organization, like whether now lately was COVID before that was 911, you know, because there’s all these things that have happened throughout my whole career that we couldn’t even control.
3:41
But the things that we could control that we weren’t really good at sometimes that we learned the hard way.
3:44
So we’ve had a lot of failures, not failures of business because we persevered, but failures are just not doing things efficiently.
3:52
And so, you know, just that’s where I just kind of, if I could have rewind it, how could now going back on it now how I could reapply successful things I’ve learned along the way.
4:02
So probably probably the best thing I’ve learned along the way is never stop learning.
4:05
That’s probably the best success metric I have now I consistently learned now in the new organization I’m in, I’m learning every day now and applying even those things that might do to the vision how to better apply those things more effectively across the organization.
4:17
Yeah, that’s awesome.
4:21
When you were getting started in your career, were you envisioning a path into sales?
4:28
No, actually I was not.
4:30
I mean my background.
4:31
I was a athlete in college.
4:33
I was a soccer player.
4:34
I played at University of North Carolina Chapel Hill.
4:36
I was a fine art major.
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I painted in college.
4:39
I never thought I didn’t thought I was me a business.
4:41
I thought I was me an artist.
4:42
So I, I when I decided I couldn’t be a fine artist, I wasn’t going to be the next Monet, you know, or next to cost.
4:47
So I decided I had to actually get a job.
4:49
So I got into graphic design and then I started really figuring out how to make a career out of that.
4:53
And then I kind of over the course of career, I, I decided I didn’t really want to work for anyone.
4:57
So I started building an organization and I hired really well.
5:01
I started bringing more people in.
5:02
But when you’re aceo of a small company, we got to about 40 people organizationally.
5:07
I wore the hat of everything, you know, So I was the sales, marketing, HR, project manager, all those kind of things.
5:14
So I never really got to focus on sales.
5:16
Now, once I finally got acquired this last 2021, I’ve, I’ve moved into that sales role the last year and a half and I was able to actually unleash what I was really good at.
5:27
So finally I’ve all those old bricks, all those things I really hated doing.
5:31
I’ve completely gone decoupled from it.
5:33
And now I can focus 100% on sales and it’s elevated the whole business.
5:37
You know, I found out what I’m really good at.
5:38
I’m able to now fully 100% focus on.
5:41
I wish I could have done that.
5:42
Going back to the things, the lessons learned.
5:44
If I could have done that when I was my old company, Evoke, we probably would have been much more successful than I was, you know, in the course of 15 years.
5:51
Yeah.
5:52
Oh, yeah.
5:52
Isn’t that funny?
5:53
Yeah, it is.
5:54
You don’t know what you don’t know.
5:55
But then that opportunity, you know, it sounds like you’re taking advantage of it.
5:59
That’s awesome.
6:00
Yeah.
6:01
And had to be kind of like, convinced to me that this is what you’re really good at.
6:04
Don’t worry about those things.
6:05
We have an organization of 600 people now, give or take, and we’re growing beyond that.
6:09
And they said we have all that back office.
6:11
You just do this.
6:12
You’re going to help launch this innovate service.
6:14
You’re going to be the face of the business.
6:15
You’re going to do these things really well across the entire business, across the entire US.
6:20
It took me a little while to gravitate towards that.
6:21
And then also, and I embraced it and it was like, oh, this is the greatest job I’ve ever had.
6:25
I just go do sales and talk to people all day long and go deliver results.
6:29
And then our team just delivers great solutions, you know, in this kind of cool technology.
6:33
It’s it’s so fascinating, exciting.
6:35
That’s why you said, what am I excited about?
6:37
I’m excited about what we’re delivering and I’m excited about the opportunity to have these kind of conversations all the time.
6:42
That’s what I do all day long.
6:43
Yep, Yep, it is.
6:45
It’s funny it, what was your hesitation going into that?
6:50
You know, the problem was, you know, when you were acquired, the hesitation was I still had, you know, we first when we got acquired, we still ran the business as a separate unit, like a region.
6:59
You know, we still, we’re told as ACEO, you still run that business.
7:01
You have your own PNL, your own profit and loss.
7:03
You’re responsible for that and I’m still responsible for it for the several the last 2 1/2 years.
7:09
And so getting that kind of moments removed from me that took a little bit of a transition.
7:13
It’s like when I stopped playing soccer and went into business, that transition was very difficult as well.
7:19
There’s like moments in life that are transformational that are really hard to just completely change overnight.
7:25
So that transformation was difficult.
7:27
So it took me a little while, about six months to really kind of like let go of the things that I so immersed in for the last 15 years of running Evoque, my old business.
7:37
But when I worked with the leadership of Netsert and being part of the leadership of Netsert, I realized what I could get rid of and focus on the really important things.
7:45
I could help scale the business much more effectively.
7:47
So it took a little while, took more just understanding that I can get rid of those things and do better for the overall company and for my own success too.
7:55
Yeah, Yeah, that’s great.
7:58
Is sales come easy to you, natural to you, or is that something you really had to work at and develop as a skill?
8:04
I think it, you know, not, this is not not to be like bragging, but it’s just a natural skill.
8:10
I think, you know, I just have AI, didn’t think I used to be.
8:12
I always would classify myself as an introvert growing up, you know, so even I think I still am.
8:17
But you know, when I’m actually doing this type of work, I’m just naturally kind of get into it.
8:21
I just enjoy the conversation.
8:23
So all day long I’m just out there really expressing myself, enjoying that kind of understanding what’s drives the company’s problems.
8:30
It is unraveling what their challenges are.
8:33
By the end of the day, I’m exhausted.
8:34
So, you know, I come on, the introvert comes, kicks back in and I just don’t want to talk to anyone.
8:38
But during the day, there’s 12 hours or so that I’m talking to people and discovering the business problems, how and building solutions and having that sales cycle.
8:46
I love it.
8:46
I embraced it and I think it did come naturally to have that conversation, that dialogue and just, you know, becoming a real trusted advisor, almost an advocate for their business, you know, So it’s really been a real interesting journey.
8:57
Yeah.
9:00
What are what’s been the biggest surprise about this transition for you?
9:06
Some was there anything that was just completely unexpected?
9:10
Wow.
9:10
Yeah.
9:11
I think you know what, I had evoke my old company.
9:15
I had a 5 salespeople underneath me at one time and I kind of was like the EVP of the sales team and even I was the CEO at that time.
9:23
And I realized not anything against them, they just were sales from different organizations.
9:28
They had bad background for what we were doing.
9:30
And I realized I was better than all of them, but I never stepped into it.
9:34
So now that I’ve stepped into it, I realized I could do this much more effectively and efficiently.
9:39
So it just took me a while just to understand that.
9:42
And again, this whole thing we’ve just before about, you know, that transition period, why it took a little bit of time for me to accept it.
9:51
It’s because there’s old habits.
9:52
You know, I had a there’s resistance because of the change was so dramatic when you run a business for so long, for so many years, and then all of a sudden I changed everything.
10:02
And all the people who work for me are still with the company of that sort.
10:04
They all came along.
10:06
So they can’t, they don’t report to me anymore.
10:08
They report to someone else.
10:09
I have my I’m like my own island.
10:11
I have new guys who are going to report to me in this upcoming year.
10:14
But I’m like this own like sales engine.
10:16
And so it’s really, it’s an interesting time.
10:18
It’s kind of changed.
10:19
Do you miss having a sales team?
10:24
Not this last year because we were still, you know, there’s so much I had to do just individually, you know, just to get things ramped up to a certain level.
10:33
Now in the upcoming year, as we go into our new fiscal year, I definitely need some support.
10:38
So we’re looking at some pre sales support, another sales associated too that will be underneath me or support, you know, report to me.
10:45
Yeah, I’m definitely gonna help.
10:46
Need a team to help cultivate because I can’t be everywhere at once.
10:49
And and this whole innovation as a service that we run, I also am running the innovation workshops too.
10:54
So now am I doing the deals?
10:55
I’m actually running these kind of really long full day workshops, immersive workshops at the client.
11:01
I need people to run those for me too.
11:02
So I definitely need a team underneath me.
11:04
So that’s getting to hire now.
11:05
It’s starting to get scaled up and because we’ve had success over the last year and a half, so now it’s time to start hiring.
11:10
That’s very cool.
11:11
What’s going to be your strategy as you hire?
11:14
What are the skill sets that you’re looking for?
11:18
The kind of person that you really want?
11:21
Like I want people that are like me.
11:23
Are you trying to find different skill sets, a mix?
11:26
What’s your approach?
11:28
It’s a good question because it depends on the role, right?
11:30
So in terms of the pre sales role, we’re looking for expertise in certain verticals.
11:35
We’re going after is one of the big mandates from our CEO is we’re getting very vertically focused on certain key areas like in the healthcare space.
11:43
It’s not just healthcare where if it’s a medical facility for let’s get a really finite, right.
11:48
We need people that really understand that market because we don’t have maybe the subject matter expert that really understands that.
11:54
So we, I want a pre salesperson that not only worked in that industry, but can actually deliver solutions and really work there.
12:00
So they can come in day one and help support me in that pre sales effort.
12:03
And then on the sales level, definitely like a mini version of me would be great.
12:08
You know, someone I can help coach up and mentor and you know, and then work towards that kind of way.
12:13
We, I do sales, you know, there’s a whole methodology of how I go through the whole sales process.
12:18
And that’s what I would like to start building from a sales structure.
12:20
And the only other thing that we really need is really the digital strategist role, that one who runs the workshops.
12:25
So that’s another thing I can help mentor and say here’s how I envision it, but obviously not, I don’t want to box it either.
12:30
I want them to come with their own idea.
12:32
So take it and then make it better, you know, because like it’s like when I was running everything as my own company, I did everything maybe 30% great.
12:39
There’s always someone who could do 100% great, you know?
12:41
So I want that, you know, So that’s the thing.
12:43
I want to bring in people that can do a full time job.
12:45
That’s what they do best.
12:46
And I would let that happen.
12:48
Yeah, no, that I think that’s important.
12:50
It’s so hard when you’re fragmented and split doing multiple things to like now I got to shift my focus.
12:55
I’ve got to be this person today.
12:57
Yeah.
12:58
That’s hard to do.
12:59
That was terrible.
13:01
That’s the hard part of running your small shop.
13:02
You know, it’s difficult.
13:03
Yeah, it does.
13:04
Yeah.
13:05
I can relate to that.
13:09
What gets you motivated every day when you wake up in the morning and you’re starting your day, what’s putting the fire in your belly?
13:17
Yeah.
13:18
It’s so different now because you know when you’re.
13:20
It used to be the the stress has changed.
13:22
You know, obviously I have so many.
13:24
The targets are about just getting these new deals kind of matriculating.
13:28
You know, you see your pipeline, you see what you’re trying to get.
13:30
You have a long term goal, you have a short term goal.
13:32
And I wake up everyday energized and excited.
13:34
I mean, I get up really early and not only those guys who gets up and starts working out at 5:00 in the morning, I get up five, but just because I naturally wake up that way.
13:41
But I’m already setting my day up and thinking what I need to achieve.
13:44
Look at my calendar and I was, oh, this is great.
13:46
I have these three meetings.
13:47
They’re going to be super excited to take this to their next step.
13:50
So yeah, I’m looking forward planning out what I’m going to do this next upcoming month and what we’re trying to close to hit our targets for the year.
13:56
So it’s all about just taking these things and moving it from the organization.
14:00
What we’re trying to grow as a organic growth from the whole company, because that’s one of the big strategies for a company is we’re growing really well from acquisition come from the organization.
14:10
But organic growth needs to be in step with that.
14:13
And you know, we have very strong metrics for that and we need to hit that.
14:16
And the innovation arm of that is one of the key metrics for that growth.
14:20
If we don’t hit the innovation target, the whole company’s going to be flat lined.
14:24
So that’s why it’s a lot of pressure.
14:26
But being an athlete, I kind of love that pressure.
14:28
So that’s what I get.
14:28
I get excited.
14:30
If I woke up and I didn’t have that kind of stress or energy on me, I probably wouldn’t be that.
14:35
I probably wouldn’t work anymore for this company.
14:37
I would do something else.
14:38
That’s what it is.
14:39
It has to be that kind of motivation.
14:40
I think that’s interesting.
14:42
That’s interesting.
14:43
That’s that’s why I asked the question because every person I think is different in terms of what gets that fire in their belly, what is that they need.
14:51
It usually is some elephant is has to be external.
14:55
It can’t all be internal.
14:56
I don’t think.
14:57
True, true.
14:58
I mean, financial is always a motivator.
15:00
Look, when there’s commissions and all that kind of stuff in the comp, but that’s like the last thing I think about.
15:05
It’s funny.
15:05
It’s like, even though I know it’s a big target, I mean, there’s money wrapped around it, it doesn’t.
15:10
It’s all the other things that are intangibles, you know, And when I have conversation, a conversation like this, Chris, I mean, I, I’m enjoying our conversation.
15:17
And this is how I talk to when I talk to a, a client or a relationship, it’s the same type of thing.
15:22
I want to learn.
15:23
I mean, you’re, you’re asking me the questions, but it would be role reverse, you know, I’d be asking those kind of questions back to you and having that kind of engagement, really learning about what you’re, what motivates you and what the things that are help your business drive.
15:34
So it’s just a, that’s what excites me.
15:36
Yeah.
15:37
How do you leverage failure in your roles and the roles you’ve had recently in your new role as well?
15:43
Well, you know, we always do like a, if we don’t win in a obviously an award for a project, you know, you put all that effort into the sales effort, you want to understand what was the contributing factors to why we didn’t win.
15:56
You know, there are less of failures than that lately than it was maybe previously.
16:00
I think our our hardest part probably when we were doing this innovation services retention of those clients because it’s an, it’s an annual service that gets renewed every 12 months.
16:09
And can you define enough value beyond that first 12 months to continue renewal?
16:15
So that to me was failure.
16:17
If we could couldn’t renew a client, it wasn’t that that we were not delivering amazing stuff.
16:21
So that was one of the things that’s one failure that we really I think we’ve mitigated it now it’s getting better.
16:26
We’re retaining and we’re getting new clients that want to go 12/24/30 six months with us and the other’s just losing a deal.
16:34
You know, that’s just why did we lose it?
16:35
What was the reasons why?
16:37
And again, we’re not in a competitive, it’s hard for us to define the competition because we’re in the MSP space.
16:44
But my division differentiates us from the rest of the MSP world.
16:47
There’s no other MSPs probably out there that have an innovate arm like us.
16:51
I mean, they might do some of the things we do, but we’re really kind of a unique kind of fit.
16:55
So we’re having a hard time defining the competition sometimes.
16:59
Yeah.
16:59
So I don’t know if we’re losing for that reason.
17:01
We just lose on price.
17:02
So those are the kind of things we’re trying to figure out.
17:04
And so we do a lot of deep dive analysis why we may not get a deal awarded.
17:07
So that’s really the things we try to focus on how we do better and price ourselves effectively.
17:11
We’re constantly doing this kind of things.
17:13
Yeah.
17:13
What’s your approach for engaging with a customer and building the relationship you were talking about?
17:20
Well, in terms of obviously if it depends on how we’re going to get their relationship started, if it’s a lead that comes from marketing, you know obviously if it’s we have a marketing department that sometimes feeds us leads.
17:29
So most of the best opportunities come from my prospecting, networking, referrals or our cross sells from our team.
17:37
So we have all these different acquisitions and all their client base.
17:40
So we have probably 600 clients across U.S.
17:43
market.
17:43
Not everyone’s a target for the Innovate client, but they’re really introducing me the to their key accounts that that have the opportunity they’re to the right target for us to probably communicate with where innovation could actually have the opportunity to help accelerate their business.
17:57
So they really could scale by taking opportunity for automation, AI, all these things we can do with their organization.
18:03
So it starts with just a 30 minute conversation really, I want to understand, I want them to tell me their business problems really communicate with them effectively.
18:11
It helps to be speaking to the leadership of that business, EVP and up.
18:15
Typically C-Suite’s the best because that’s who I really kind of would prefer to sell to.
18:20
Let’s sell, but just had that conversation with initially and we’re not talking technology at this point.
18:24
Just I want to understand their business, what their industry they’re in, what their challenges are, what kind of issues they haven’t seen the data across our organization, all these kind of things that were it’s contextual, but it’s pretty much across all verticals.
18:36
It all costs in all industries.
18:37
It’s very similar business challenges, the business challenges.
18:40
After that it kind of engagement.
18:42
Once we get past that, they move into the typical sales cycle.
18:45
You know, I start trying to nurture and I want to see if we can get past that first call to a longer, I do another one hour mini workshop, you know, call or if they’ll allow me and it’s available.
18:57
I like to spend 1/2 day with them.
18:59
I’ll go on site if I can, even if it’s I have to travel to them to spend half a day on the really to understand the business problems.
19:06
I want all their heads of business, all the business units to come in and tell me from departmentally what they’re challenged with.
19:12
And then we can vote and prioritize all this issues they have across the organization.
19:16
This is we’re not engaged yet.
19:17
And then from that then we go into like, OK, we agree that there’s a lot of problems, we can fix it.
19:22
Here’s how we’d approach it and all the kind of stuff that goes into our proposal.
19:25
And then we go into hopefully a relationship, but take some points, touch points be along the way.
19:29
But that’s the way I approach it from initial call, maybe another stop, follow up call to get some more buy in and then go in.
19:36
If allow me a workshop.
19:37
Yeah, that’s nice.
19:39
Then engagement.
19:40
Hopefully, you know, if not, then we I’ll give even if we don’t get engaged, they get a delivery from us.
19:44
I’ll I’ll handle our work product.
19:47
Here’s what we prioritize with the here’s the document that showed what you guys value from a business.
19:51
We charted it together.
19:52
We voted on prioritize it.
19:53
There’s the big impact to the business, you know, those kind of things that are important to them.
19:57
That’s how that’s my, you know, value back to them.
19:59
I want them to understand.
20:00
You know, we are trying to build that kind of relationship day one and that’s really comes down to is delivering value.
20:06
Yeah, I hope so.
20:07
Yeah.
20:07
If you’re not delivering that value, you’re just wasting time.
20:11
Yeah, because remember we’re selling to that executive level and he’s probably the owner of the business.
20:15
If this is SMB family owned, sometimes you know, it’s you got really interesting shops, you know, I was like that way.
20:22
So if someone, you know, you’re fractured time and everything’s the time is the most valuable commodity you have.
20:28
If I don’t show them value, then it won.
20:31
The conversation goes sideways quickly.
20:32
So I mean, I want to, and if they allow me to come in and spend that much time with them, you know, we better be delivering something of significant value.
20:39
Oh yeah, ’cause that’s a huge gift to get 4 hours if I can get that.
20:43
Yeah, exactly.
20:44
With their schedule, that is really hard to do.
20:50
So what advice do you have for someone that might be heading into a major transformation, whatever that is?
20:59
Because what you’ve been through that is huge transformation.
21:03
What are some of your key lessons learned that you think might help someone else?
21:07
Are you talking about transformation from a career role?
21:10
Yeah, exactly.
21:11
Like that’s major career transformation and now continue to transform, which is great.
21:16
So, you know, at my, my advanced age, right?
21:19
So I’m in my 50s now, you know, might not hopefully don’t look in my mid 50s, but I am, I’m 55 and I’m a father of three kids.
21:24
So I’m constantly evolving and learning still because now we’re at the next phase of this business where we’re scaling to and growing.
21:31
But I think that’s the whole most important factor.
21:34
I think if you really are in business to have a career path, you know, and I mean, some people build a business to have a lifestyle company and I could have built my company that way.
21:42
That was at one time kind of leaning its way towards that.
21:45
But I then I kind of, you know, re evaluated where I wanted to take the business and that’s why I built it up to be acquired.
21:52
So that’s so once I got that mindset, I changed my whole dynamic of where I was trying to transform it.
21:57
So that was one of the transformational opportunities I had in my life to on the business side.
22:02
Now that I’m part of this larger organization, I wanted, I decided day one, what kind of impact I’m going to have on this company where I want to be.
22:09
And I’m on the exco, the executive committee of this company and one of the key leaders of this business because I, and I’m beyond that.
22:17
I could just be one of the exco and just sit on the sidelines, but I want to be on the forefront.
22:20
I want to help drive the business as much as I can, much as they’ll allow me on the strategy as well as the growth of the organization.
22:27
So that’s what I’m transforming now.
22:28
So the whole point is, what are you taking that?
22:30
And then if we’re going to our next level, we go to private equity or go public.
22:34
If I’m with the company, we’ve come 2000 personal organization within two years or three years, Where do I sit there?
22:40
So I’m always looking at what can I do for my career while I’m still in my prime to go forward.
22:46
So anyone that from a person who may be just starting out, chart that up, you know, start projecting out where you want to be.
22:52
I mean, there’s nothing wrong with checking out your next 10 years.
22:55
I know people say where are you going to be in five years?
22:56
That’s a little bit of a kind of a typical question you’ll get in a interview.
23:01
Yeah.
23:01
There’s a reason why people ask that question because they want to see how you think about things, you know, and it’s where you’re how you chart your outcome, because a lot of people jump from job to job every two years.
23:11
But if you don’t, if you, you know, if you can have a good answer for that next 5 to 10 years, don’t say I’m going to be with you for the next five years.
23:17
I’m going to think about what your life is, what your career looks like.
23:20
I think that’s kind of an interesting way to answer that question.
23:22
And I I mean, that’s the way I think about it.
23:24
I can.
23:24
And now that I’m an employee for the first time, I’m a shareholder, but I’m also an employee of this company.
23:29
It’s a different kind of mindset.
23:31
And I have a career.
23:32
I want to continue that and learn.
23:35
Yeah.
23:39
When you are engaging with customer as an introvert, it’s, you know, I say engaging, not selling.
23:49
Is it?
23:50
I think as it do what parts of your personality being an introvert do you think really help you be effective in your role in sell in selling?
24:01
You know, it’s I I feel like I give something to myself in every conversation.
24:05
You know, when you’re an introvert, even though it comes out, I’m extra, I come out like, you know, I’m coming out all this energy and but I’m giving a, you know, I feel like I’m giving some of my heart.
24:14
You know, I feel like it’s weird.
24:15
I feel like I give something that’s different than maybe I’m not talking salesy and I I don’t have this script.
24:20
I don’t go by anything other than just my sense of my soul and my my gut.
24:25
You know, I’m just having a conversation, but it takes from my point of view, I feel like I’m giving as much as I can and I feel like they’re giving the sense of humor, self suffocation, whatever you need to do.
24:37
But but it’s coming from an internal part of my soul a little bit.
24:40
And it sounds a little silly, but it really does.
24:42
And it takes a lot out of me.
24:44
I don’t know if they realize it on the other side.
24:46
And The thing is, it’s better when I’m in person, but when they’re on the camera, it’s even more difficult because you don’t know how this being received as much.
24:52
You know, these virtual meetings are tough and I’m on calls all day long.
24:57
So by the end of the day, I’ve given, I felt like I’ve given so much and I you know, I hope it’s been received some small portion because it takes it takes a toll.
25:06
So I don’t know, I’m not sure if it’s noticed, but you know, we but from being an interview.
25:11
But then if you look at our website net cert, you’ll see me.
25:13
I’m all I’m plastered all over that website.
25:16
You know, I’m the face of the business in a way.
25:18
It’s hysterical.
25:19
So I’m on everything I was on on podcast, I’m doing, I’m doing, you know, I never would have done that as evoke.
25:25
I probably was shield away from that things, you know, now it’s but I do.
25:29
It’s part of my daily job, I guess.
25:31
I don’t know.
25:31
It’s funny how things change quickly.
25:33
You have you talk all day.
25:35
Yeah, you’re you’re done for your day.
25:38
What do you do to recharge your batteries?
25:40
Because you you have to recharge, right.
25:43
Yeah, And I and that’s a problem.
25:44
It’s I I was just mentioned a few minutes ago.
25:48
I’m a kind of an old dad for young kids.
25:51
You know, I have a 8 year old, a four year old and a 2 year old.
25:55
And so I start a little later than most in life.
25:57
So when I come home, well home, I work from home.
25:59
So this is my basement.
26:01
This is the, this is the bat cave, right?
26:03
So it’s like you got all the, all the magic happens at home.
26:07
Now, all the offices, everyone works kind of remote and that’s sort of must.
26:10
But yeah, I come home.
26:11
So when the kids are here, I, I go right upstairs and they jump on me, you know, so it’s that kind of, but you know, The funny thing is that kind of re energizes me.
26:18
Playing with the children, gives me a new sense of why I’m doing all this, you know, so that’s another thing we talked about what makes excites me in the day.
26:25
Well, it gives me a purpose for working so hard, because then that’s why I work to make the money.
26:29
You know, I mean, I, I work for myself for because of the excitement of having conversations like this.
26:34
But for them, it’s to provide the life, the lifestyle to, you know, so they can have everything that I had growing up, you know, so I want to make sure that they have that so they they energize me.
26:45
So I recharge by them and then a glass of wine or two, you know, and just chill out, watch some stupid television, you know, my wife, whatever she wants to watch, you know, I don’t need, I’ve made enough decisions in the I’m, I’m done, you know, Yeah, yeah.
27:00
Oh, no, I know.
27:01
That’s what I love when people ask me like, hey, what do you want to do?
27:03
I’m like, dude, I’ve been making decisions all day.
27:05
And please take this one.
27:07
Please, I have to now.
27:09
I have to cook dinner too, OK?
27:11
I’m the chef of the family too.
27:13
So.
27:13
Oh, yeah, I love to cook, but I’m like, I’m really drained.
27:16
I don’t know another thing to give.
27:19
Yeah.
27:19
No, I hear you.
27:21
Kids can’t do that in a way like nothing else because you get to strip away from the work identity and just be Dad.
27:28
Yeah.
27:28
And that’s one thing I love about Next Cert is a company.
27:31
The culture is really great.
27:32
They really embrace that family.
27:34
It’s one of our primary, like, guiding principles, you know, this whole thing, family is a big one, and the culture, the company’s a big thing.
27:42
So, you know, it’s a really shared experience.
27:43
So everyone loves to hear about what’s going on in their family, share pictures.
27:46
Yeah.
27:46
They really embrace that.
27:48
So that helps, you know, So it’s nice being a company.
27:51
I understand family is first.
27:53
Yeah.
27:54
Well, sales is first, then family.
27:57
I mean, yeah, they say family first, but we are trying to grow a business together.
28:00
We still got to produce.
28:01
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
28:02
We’re still producers at the end of the day.
28:07
Where do you see yourself in five years?
28:09
That’s a good question.
28:10
Well, you know, say, well, I know there’s a trajectory for the company and I’ve made it very clear I have a career path for the business where I want to be.
28:18
Now, if we take on private equity, which looks like it probably will happen, there’s going to be something that something’s going to happen this year.
28:25
And then if they’ll have me, I’ll be a part of this business as it scales even further.
28:30
So I want to, you know, continue that path with next third at least till 2030.
28:34
So that’s the next five years.
28:35
And where I am in the organization, there’s not that many roles that are higher than mine.
28:40
So I don’t know where I’m going to be organizationally.
28:42
You know, I’ve asked for like, where’s my promotion look like or where can I go to?
28:47
I mean, there’s only a few chairs left, you know, So it’s just like, you know, that’s fine.
28:53
But I can maybe you know, be stay with the business, keep growing it or maybe there’s going to be some way to scale it even more, you know, I don’t know.
29:01
So right now it’s going to stay with necessary.
29:03
Let’s see what happens.
29:04
If they’ll keep me as long as long as I’m delivering, they’re going to probably keep me.
29:08
And you know, let’s see how big we can get this thing.
29:10
So we’re trying to become like a a billion dollar managed service provider of one point 1 1/2 billion dollar company in the next 5 years.
29:18
So it’s one of our, you know, big wags out there that we’re trying to be hags that we’re trying to get out there.
29:24
So it’s it looks pretty realistic too.
29:26
So we’re really excited.
29:27
We’re marching to that target.
29:29
So yeah, that’s my next five years.
29:30
It’s gonna be a lot of work.
29:32
And repeat.
29:32
Yeah, that’s and repeat what I’m doing now.
29:35
And if it’s not that I don’t, I have, there’s always a Plan B, you know, I think, yeah, I think I’m valuable in the marketplace and that sort of, you know, we don’t need this division anymore.
29:46
I think I could take it somewhere else.
29:47
There’s always another division or there’s market opportunity.
29:52
You know, it’s it’s, but I like where I am.
29:54
I think it’s exciting.
29:55
It’s very fun and I enjoy everyone.
29:56
Especially when you’re at a great company, it makes it so much easier to see yourself evolving within the framework.
30:03
Even if you don’t have a clear path.
30:06
You build a company like that, the way they’re evolving, the way they’re growing, there’s going to be something available for you.
30:11
Yeah, we had like a company off site in Atlanta, like in October, I think it was.
30:15
And one of the other companies got acquired.
30:17
One of their executives, he says something really nice because they asked that kind of question, what was transformed, transformational for them as an individual in life.
30:25
You know, it’s more like touchy feely stuff, which is really nice.
30:27
But he said, do you guys how lucky you are to have been acquired by this company because we were all small medium, you know, we’re all small businesses that got acquired, become a big company.
30:36
And, and how he expressed it was really lovely how he said it.
30:39
And it resonated with me because, you know, sometimes you forget it.
30:42
You know why we did this because it’s like a money thing first.
30:45
Or one of the reasons why we did it was because of the potential of working with a company that’s kind of culture fit too.
30:51
So I think that sort of provides that.
30:54
That’s why we’re going to stick around for pretty much everyone who got acquired.
30:57
Oh yeah, that’s, but it’s so important because I know a lot of people that have been acquired and has not been a good experience.
31:07
Yeah, you can cash out and go or there’s we haven’t had that.
31:10
It’s been really the people that acquire the companies, you know, there’s always a transition and figure it out.
31:17
You got to learn some of the hard ways and there’s bumps and freezes, but they’re all there and everyone seems to be like it’s not really drinking kool-aid.
31:23
We’re all kind of like, OK, they we’re starting to cultivate and grow into the message together and we’re marching a lot more effectively as a company and be more effective as a company now.
31:32
And the US is quite fragmented.
31:33
We’re in regions across the US South Africa is where the headquarters was originally.
31:37
Now it’s the US.
31:38
It’s like a second headquarters.
31:40
They’re more unified because it was like a 200 person office there.
31:43
You know, here we have regions all across the US, small company, small company, small company.
31:47
But all the growth in the future is going to be here in the US.
31:50
So that’s what makes it exciting.
31:52
That’s pretty cool shifting conversation with CRM.
31:56
You love it or you hate it?
31:59
I yeah, that’s a good question.
32:02
I think I it’s necessary, you know, I, I realize I’m, I’m a little, I was a little old school, I guess back in the day.
32:09
I mean, I would just do my mind was so great.
32:12
You had a pen and paper or emails.
32:14
I could keep track of things, but I can’t keep track of things anymore.
32:17
There’s too much activity.
32:19
So CRM is just such a value tool just to have one centralized location that I can just go to and see all the activity in their shared opportunities across my organization.
32:29
We have dual deals or I’m helping support multiple deals.
32:33
So I see helping even update their CRM for them because some of these guys aren’t keeping it updated.
32:38
But at least I can see the activity.
32:40
And if I didn’t have it there, I wouldn’t know where anything is.
32:43
I mean, and then on top of all that, it’s all the projects that are on the delivery side that’s not in the CRM, that’s still in my brain.
32:50
So if the CRM, the sales stuff wasn’t there through all the sales cycle, it would get lost and we’d miss, we’d miss millions of dollars of deals.
32:57
I mean, that’s why CRM is valuable.
32:59
So Leah Lovett, for that reason, I hate the admin part of it, you know, just because who wants to do admin?
33:06
But we’re there’s ways to get more effective at it.
33:08
And you know, that’s one of the sales rules.
33:10
You know, we’re going to we’re looking at a sales operations person help support the admin efforts.
33:14
But, yeah, eventually you can just do your, you got to type in some things once in a while you do or talk it in, you know, whatever you’re.
33:21
Yeah, sometimes you got to click the mouse, sometimes you got to type the keyboard, you know, but it’s good because then you realize you’ve updated and it makes you say that deal stays in focus, you know, and I think you could lose sight of a deal because you just forgot the e-mail.
33:33
But if you look at your CRM, it’s in the face.
33:35
There’s a dashboard there.
33:37
Yeah.
33:37
It’s valuable.
33:38
Yeah.
33:38
So love, I guess if you had a magic wand to change one thing about your CRM, what would it be?
33:45
See, we’re kind of transitioning, right?
33:46
We’re we have a couple CRMS that we’re playing with right now, but let’s see the one, I think the one that one we really work with right now.
33:54
If I could have a magic wanted to fix it or make it better.
33:57
I think when we’re doing the, the deal where I’m supporting the deal, I would like to be seeing a lot better visibility when that gets updated because right now I don’t see it updated or they’re if they’re moving it through the sales cycle like I would.
34:11
So I think there’s a loss of visibility and man, I’m like, did you do it or where does it sit?
34:17
And then because I’m doing the sales activity outside sometimes in the CRM with an e-mail or phone call.
34:22
So as it getting updated there, even though it’s all connected to some level, I feel like that’s where it’s kind of lost.
34:27
That would be a much more valued kind of piece of the puzzle for our particular CRM With your so you’re in your role right now.
34:42
So I was kind of stumbling there in my question.
34:45
In your current role, when you’re owner, you really get to make all the decisions when it comes to technology.
34:51
In your current role now you’re part of a team, contributing, I’m sure influencing decisions, but you’re not the sole decision maker.
35:00
What’s that portion of the transition been like for you?
35:04
You know, that I get, I have input on it, right?
35:08
So versus having the decision that’s, I guess it’s kind of nice because, you know, you feel like your feedback’s valuable because I’ve become more of a user.
35:16
I’m an end user so much as an owner part of it.
35:19
So it’s different.
35:20
But the only negative is like I, I’m not happy with something, a tool and I, I make it very clear that this isn’t a good tool, but there’s nothing that’s been acted on.
35:29
And so we’re sitting with this thing for now a year.
35:33
Nothing’s been changed and it takes so long for now, we’re bigger companies have changed and a bigger company is a slow process.
35:40
Yeah.
35:40
And there’s many committees.
35:43
I mean, we’ve become a bigger company.
35:44
And when you’re all’s a small company, I could just say, OK, I hate this tool.
35:47
I’m gone.
35:47
Let’s try this new tool.
35:48
Let’s try a new one.
35:50
Yeah, it so that was the the great thing about being your own boss a little bit, but I’m OK.
35:55
Like even today we were doing a sales meeting and and in the chat, I was writing.
35:58
OK, who who likes our CRM or does not like I even said it and I said I hate it.
36:05
I mean, so you know, just to start like a because we were in discussions about it, it’s kind of funny.
36:09
We’re actually talking about it.
36:10
So is CRM the basis of your or not the basis, but is it a tool leveraged in your sales meetings?
36:18
Yes, Yeah.
36:19
Well CRM is feeds our Power BI dashboards.
36:23
We have dashboards that are our sales dashboard.
36:25
So the CRM feeds that.
36:26
So when we are doing the sales meeting, they pull up the kind of the forecast dashboard.
36:31
So yeah, but that’s all coming from CRM.
36:33
Good deal.
36:34
I like to hear that because a lot of people I talk to find out there because they don’t trust their CRM or whatever the issue is.
36:41
They’re really not it doesn’t play a role in the sales meetings.
36:44
And and so that’s where you know, that’s the case.
36:48
That’s that’s a problem.
36:50
Well, good data is the most important part.
36:52
Now some of the CRM, some of the people are not updating their CRM.
36:55
And then we do these sales meetings.
36:57
I’m like, that looks really wiggy.
36:59
You know, I’m looking at and I’m they’re not guys who report to me, but if they were, I’d be calling them out a little harder.
37:04
And I think that’s something we have to be better at as an organization that you every Monday we do this salesman, you know, it’s coming.
37:11
Have it updated at least the things you’re that are most active, the ones that are 3-4 months out, that’s fine.
37:15
Leave them out there.
37:16
You know, get to those when you can, but you know, you’re going to be talking about these five things in your pipeline, make sure it’s updated.
37:22
So there’s no excuse for that.
37:23
I think that’s something.
37:24
So.
37:24
Yeah.
37:25
And that because at least that all gets fed to the dashboard that he’s, you know, we’re reading from and looking at and we’re all marching to the same target at the end of the day, even though my group has a certain divisional target, but overall rolling up to the same number.
37:37
You know, Andrew, I appreciate we’re there time, the time hours goes by so quick as much of my time we’re going.
37:44
I can’t believe we’re already at time.
37:46
If people want to reach out, connect with you.
37:49
Personal reasons, professional.
37:50
If they want to learn more about Netsurette, what’s the best way for them to do that?
37:54
Sure.
37:55
I mean, obviously Linkedin’s a great way to reach out to me, you know, connect with me.
37:59
I’ve so many people connect me through that way.
38:01
I’m sure we can put into the meeting notes here and you can always reach out to me through my e-mail at [email protected].
38:09
And I always available to do a phone call, you know, or a quick meeting with anyone.
38:13
So happy to make the connection and Chris, this is a pleasure.
38:16
I enjoyed it and it was definitely went by really quickly.
38:18
So I was happy to have a conversation.
38:20
It’s fun.
38:21
I, I, it’s such a joy for me.
38:24
It’s it’s one of the ways I get my energy back in the day is for this podcast because it’s always, I tell people all the time to me, it’s a master class in leadership, a master class in selling.
38:36
And I get so many quality people on here too.
38:38
To me, you know, there’s that element as well.
38:41
So I really appreciate your time.
38:43
Absolutely.
38:44
I’m flattered you had me on.
38:45
I really am.
38:45
Thank you so much.
38:46
I really appreciate it.
38:47
Yeah, that’s right.
38:48
So, yeah.
38:48
So I’m sure the people listening, they really appreciate your time too.
38:51
And I also would like to thank you for being our newest member of the Sales League Dog Pack.
38:58
You got it.
38:58
Thank you so much for having me again and have a happy holiday, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone who’s listening.
39:06
As we end this discussion on Sales Lead Dog, be sure to subscribe to catch all our episodes on social media.
39:13
Follow us on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram, watch the videos on YouTube, and you can also find our episodes on our website at impellercrm.com/sales Lead Dog.
39:26
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