“If the pay stays the same, and the authority stays the same, would you still want it?” asks Alex Hoffer, Chief Revenue Officer at Hoffer Plastics Corporation. As the CRO of a family-run business founded by his grandfather in 1953, Alex has had to think a lot about why he does what he does, and how he can continually do it better. In this episode of Sales Lead Dog, Alex talks about his transition from fixing air conditioners on the roof of his family’s factory to running the company with his father and two sisters, and all the lessons he’s learned along the way.
When it comes to sales leadership, Alex has a lot to say about how to be “followable,” which is the ultimate goal of any leader. For Alex, being a leader is about being willing and able to do what others won’t — to run into the fire, instead of away from it. But he also realized early on in his career that if he kept running into fires without caring for his emotional health, he was going to run himself and his team into the ground.
Watch or listen to this episode:
Wed, 1/6 12:58PM • 54:00
crm, sales, people, leadership, customer, thinking, sales team, leaders, hoffer, salespeople, vulnerability, agree, alex, job, question, day, problems, point, grandfather, run
Alex Hoffer, Christopher Smith
Welcome to the Sales Lead Dog Podcast hosted by CRM technology and sales process expert Christopher Smith, talking with sales leaders that have separated themselves from the rest of the pack. Listen to find out how the best of the best achieve success with their team and CRM technology. And remember, unless you are the lead dog, the view never changes.
Christopher Smith 09:35
Welcome to Sales Lead Dog. We have another great episode for you today. I, for those of you that have been listening to the podcast, you know that I love to have on guests from the manufacturing world. It’s a deep passion of mine from my ERP implementation days. And today we have joining us, Alex Hoffer, Alex, welcome to Sales Lead Dog.
Alex Hoffer 09:58
Well, thank you for having me. I’m glad to be here.
Christopher Smith 10:00
Alex, tell us a little bit about yourself and your company.
Alex Hoffer 10:05
So, I always like to start with the company. Hoffer Plastics was founded by my grandfather in 1953, you know, fast forward to the present, we are a plastics company run by my sisters and I, so I have two sisters in the business and along with my dad who’s still very active. And we manufacture plastic parts for various industries, packaging, automotive, appliance, consumer, industrial, and our passion, and it’s exactly what we were just talking about, is utilizing manufacturing, specifically plastic parts, to better off humanity and I know that sounds idealistic, but in our world, when you travel around the globe and you see how little plastic parts impact the lives of human beings, you just realize that that’s a true statement. And that is where our passion lies. So that’s kind of what we do and why we do it. As far as me, 39 years old, married, three kids, I have a blog, blog that I invite our listeners to check out, “Bald in Business,” you’ll realize you see a picture of me. I haven’t had a bad hair day in 20 years and I’m very proud of that. So glad to be here, and let’s talk about sales.
Christopher Smith 11:27
That’s awesome. I always start off my podcast this way, when you think back over your career, what are the three things that have really contributed to your success?
Alex Hoffer 11:40
Well, first thing I think about when you ask that question is my grandfather. And my grandfather, not only founded the business, he had a passion to, as my dad would say, unceremoniously, unceremoniously if I can say the word would put his foot right my dad’s behind and say, “Get out and make some sales calls.” And that was the old-fashioned advice that my dad got that I got right off the bat. And I remember one of my mentors who is our executive vice president telling me the difference between mediocrity and excellence is often, for me I live in the Chicagoland area, it’s those of us who come back from a sales call and instead of driving back to our house, we drive from the airport back to the office to keep at it. So, persistence, number one. Number two, doing whatever you can to get in front of the customer. And then number three, just and just never giving up and it’s different than persistence because sales is so psychological, and we were all told no, no repeatedly. I mean if I go back to my dating life, I heard no so frequently that it was you know, it’s something I had to get over, I always tell people that that’s where my sales career began. And, you know, you have to figure out how to overcome that, overcome objection after objection for a bald guy. There’s plenty of objections for these young ladies, right. So I had to figure out how to overcome that and it took a lot of persistence, but also that psychological belief that it could still happen that the sale could still happen.
Christopher Smith 13:24
Yeah, that’s awesome. Now some people might think because you’re in a family-owned business you had it easy. I think any entrepreneur would would laugh at that. But can you talk about your transition into your, you knoe starting through your transition into sales leadership?
Alex Hoffer 13:43
Yeah. So a couple things jump out. First, first and foremost, I started in May of 2008 with the company, now please hear me, I’ve you know had worked a couple of summers, so I got really in tune with the air conditioners on top of our building, because my dad thought it was a great idea for me. He wouldn’t let me in the building at the beginning, I had to go work on top of the roof cleaning air conditioners, because he wanted me to, you know, start his you know as low as I could go if you will. And I started in May of 2008, working in a plant being really chaperoned, for lack of better words, by one of our foremen who has just turned into a lifelong friend, and it was about, sort of like Undercover Boss because he didn’t, his name’s Tyrone, Tyrone didn’t know that I was a Hoffer for about a week and a half. And we had this great moment where I looked at him, and he kind of finally put two and two together, and I looked at him and I said, “This does not change anything, because I just want to be treated like one of the guys and get a lot of common interest in sports and what have you.” But it was very quickly after that that I got moved up to the front office and I was in estimating. And my dad and I mentioned Jack earlier they thought it’d be great for me to understand the numbers side of our business. And I gotta be honest with you, it’s just sitting in front of a spreadsheet every day and we’ve got a team that does that. Right now, it’s only one individual, which we can get into AI a little bit later, elevation and those sorts of things. So, that team is smaller than it used to be. But that wasn’t for me, like, I had to be, I was begging to get on the road and go make calls and. And so, I eventually was allowed to do that right in time for the Great Recession. So, great timing to get out.
Christopher Smith 15:40
Yeah, timing’s everything.
Alex Hoffer 15:41
Yeah, so our Director of Engineering at the time reminded me that my, my grandfather called the 1981 recession, which was actually by the way when I was born, and he was you know so he would joke, it was that was the Irish recession. So he pointed back to one phrase, “This is the Hoffer great recession” is a little, you know, we kind of have a spirited, you know, collaborative feel here. It’s a family setting so we have a lot of fun with that. But I got to learn how it was a hard time and I remember thinking, you know, going back to that persistence and and believing even when things were tough, that this was awesome that I was selling in the Great Recession because first of all, people were using the Great Recession as like an excuse that they couldn’t sell anything and, you know, I was going to go out and hear a bunch of no’s, no matter what because I was a rookie. So, I was just like everybody else at that point. And, you know, I’ve learned a lot. Eventually, I started selling on price and learned how, what a terrible idea that is is, we had seasoned, you know seasoned people on our team who would remind me when we were going through you know approvals, just kind of how bad the work was that I was bringing into our facility so our customers loved me because they were getting such great deals. So, you know, I had to learn, and I had to fail, I had to take a lot of feedback from people and I you know I think I, my skin got a little thicker because, you know, again, a couple mentors always pointed out that, because, you know, I’m bald, I look like I look, you know, a lot like my dad and even my grandfather. You know, every eyeball was gonna be on me when I was, you know, pulling out of the parking lot early or, you know, trying to work, work from home, you know, ten years before COVID-19 and that sort of thing. So, so there was a lot of time at the office and there was a lot of eyes on me and so, you know, I had to, I had to prove myself that I was, that I was worth it, if you will.
Christopher Smith 17:55
Yeah. Thinking back to that time when you were starting in sales, and what you know now, what’s that one thing you wish you would have been taught when you were starting?
Alex Hoffer 18:08
So I, large part of my success was that I was very responsive. And it’s something that I encourage everybody, like every salesperson I encourage, because nobody likes a salesperson that doesn’t get back to you. But to answer your question, it, what I’ve come to, to appreciate with age is there’s a double-edged sword to that. And what I mean is, if you’re always responsive and you’re never given time to recuperate and to rest, and it took you know a wife and three kids for me to realize this, there is this thing that is so foreign to you when you’re in your 20’s called burnout. And I got to a point, my faith is a very important component, I write about it a lot in my on my blog, that my executive coach and this was a couple, three, or four years ago now like you mean he said, and this might turn some of our listeners off and not my intent to proselytize or anything like that but he said, “Alex you are soul sick.” And what that means is that I was, I was working to the point where, you know, I didn’t have real good emotional health, and as a leader, you know, leadership is always about others, it’s never about you and if you’re not healthy inside of yourself, you cannot shepherd and help and coach and teach those who are trying to leave. In fact, I would go so far as to say you’re unfollowable when you are not healthy yourself. And so I had to create some boundaries around that and, you know, to some relationship, relationships, reset some expectations that they could email me at 9:30 at night, you know, they might not get an answer till 6:30 in the morning, which, you know, doesn’t sound like, oh, that sounds pretty normal, but I was the guy on email at 9:30 at night.
Christopher Smith 20:05
Alex Hoffer 20:06
And so, you know, I try to, you know, take a stab at that, I try to take one day and seven, you know, completely off or mostly off you know. I’m laughing because I struggle with that, I’m just owning it. Because I love what I do, you know, so it’s not like it’s a, it’s a punishment it’s just you know. So young people out there or even seasoned, seasoned vets, you got to give yourself some time because if you’re unhealthy, that unhealthy characteristic is going to come across in your relationships and it’s going to be detrimental to those you love the most, including your customers, and I hope you love your customers by the way.
Christopher Smith 20:45
Yeah, I could not agree more. It’s actually as an entrepreneur, I can relate very strongly to what you’re saying and it’s actually one of our core values, work-life balance, that when you’re at work, work hard. But when the day is done, focus on yourself, your family. Drop work, forget about work, recharge the batteries, live your life, that’s so important to have that balance.
Alex Hoffer 21:13
Yeah we agree.
Christopher Smith 21:14
That’s terrific. For someone that wants to transition into sales leadership, it’s a big jump. It’s very different from sales. Tell us about your transition from being gung-ho sales guy to now, I have to be, I’m in charge of, you know revenue responsibility for our organization, what’s that transition like?
Alex Hoffer 21:38
Yeah, so for me it was the next logical step of progression, which is a terrible answer. So I’ll pause there for object, you know for, you know, for for impact. It’s a terrible answer, and so I had to learn early on in my sales leadership that being a leader is completely different than being an account manager or a business, we call it business development manager, because I went into sales leadership thinking that okay now I have a bunch of direct reports, and I can still do my other job. And leadership, as I said a minute ago, is always about building into other human beings. They’re following you, because you’re someone worth following, do you have the characteristics that you know in a lot of ways that they feel valued by whatever the giftedness is that you bring to the table. So from a sales perspective, you might be able to offer a different perspective or, you know, you should definitely be setting the expectations around what success looks like. That’s why I’m a big fan of KRA’s, key results areas, that in plain English specify what winning looks like. So, leadership is so much, it’s so different than, you know, day to day account management. So, I mean, we can, I’m sure we talk about this for for a long time, because what I would say to somebody who’s thinking about this, and I don’t think I answered that part of the question, is I would ask yourself why. Because a lot of times in sales, I feel like going back to my original answer. The why is that well it’s the next logical step. It’s, you know, so I’m gonna get paid more. I’m gonna have, you know, power or authority or whatever it is that you’re chasing. And I think you have to ask yourself if the pay stays the same if the, if the authority is just relatively the same, would you still want it? Because if you’re not motivated in leading other people and, and making your existence be about other people, then you should stick to doing what you’re doing as a salesperson because we need thriving salespeople on our team.
Christopher Smith 21:39
Alex Hoffer 21:39
So, I think, I think having that understanding of why you want to progress in that direction is very important.
Christopher Smith 24:10
Oh yeah, I think, I mean I think back when I was younger, that, you know, I had this perception that oh hey, when I’m the Vice President of whatever that I’ve got that great title, I’ve got the, like you said more money and more responsibility, without a clue what that really means, you know that stuff’s very shallow and very fleeting, and if you don’t have a much deeper meaning to an understanding of what it really means to be a leader, don’t go that route.
Alex Hoffer 24:39
Well I joke, you know, 25 years ago there was this philosopher, The Notorious BIG who said, “Mo Money Mo Problems,” it might be Puff Daddy, I don’t know, I’m a white guy that likes country music, but the point is that Mo Money Mo Problems is more power, more problems, you put, you insert your you know your new job title there. And you’re going to have more problems, and that’s a good thing if you’re, if you’re in leadership and you’re in the right spot, you’re okay with that because that’s, that’s where your giftedness is and you thrive in those situations. Leaders should be thriving in personnel problems because that’s, that’s where we, you know, that’s where we lead. I mean I’ve heard Patrick Lencioni say that leaders should be in meetings, you know, 80% of the day because that’s where they lead. And if you think about it, there’s so much truth to that.
Christopher Smith 25:37
Yeah, that’s awesome. The, your blog, you recently did a series of three blogs around leadership. Can you talk about that?
Alex Hoffer 25:50
Yeah, so, you know, I’m always thinking of new, new ideas for some mini series with regards to some posts and, you know, I try to write you know shorter posts, but sometimes it can get a little bit longer as, you know, as in this case. I was thinking about the essentials of leadership, and what I mean by that is what are the things that make someone follow, followable, I can’t say that word. Because leadership comes down to a very simple thing. It’s are you someone others want to follo? It’s not a job title, it’s it’s, you know, I mean, it has nothing to do with, you know, where you are in the organizational chart, because anybody can lead. Now John Maxwell says that leadership is always about influence and I, I tend to agree with that because I can be led by people, quote unquote, lower in the, in the, on the job, or in the organizational chart here, because if their influence is such, they might persuade me to think differently. I mean that’s the beauty of leadership and so, you know, in a sense, I try to think about like what are those things that make someone followable. So for example, courage, leading through conflict, because it’s not, you know, it’s not normal for human beings to want to run towards conflict, like we are wired to run away when we have that fight or flight response when something bad happens, like I was talking about a minute ago, interpersonal conflict. I don’t necessarily want to spend my entire day in interpersonal conflict, but I know as a leader, that we as leaders do the things that nobody else want to do, and that’s what makes us followable. So, you know, having courage to face the conflict and run towards, towards the fire or one of the most amazing acts of bravery, I’ve ever seen and I don’t know if we’ll ever see any new wars, all those pictures on 911 of firemen running towards the towers when everyone was running away. I mean, that’s leadership personified. So another example would be vulnerability. I agree with Simon Sinek that leaders need to go first. They also need his book, “Leaders Eat Last” is is a great, great tool in that sense. And we need to be the ones that are just opening up and being real with one another and, you know, so vulnerability and leadership, you know I feel like we live in such a divided world and especially, you know, we’re recording this the first week of January in the midst of a bunch of, you know, political chaos and whether you’re right or left doesn’t matter, there’s just division, and, you know, vulnerability, it’s the leaders. Okay, so how can I be vulnerable to the point where I’m going to bring people together and make people feel valued on whatever their political beliefs are or whatever their, you know, sporting rooting interests are or whatever their hobbies are. And so I think vulnerability is, is really important with that. But also you have to you know, Another thing I wrote about was predictability, because we can’t be the type of people that wonder what Alex you know, which Alex is going to show up? Is it going to be the grumpy one, is it going to be the, you know, the happy one? Is you know, people can’t be asking that. You know and leaders, we’re held to a higher standard because, you know, we can have our bad days in private, but again, we have to be feeding into other human beings. So, you know, our bad days have to be in our office, and when we go out we got to be projecting know things that are gonna build others up.
Christopher Smith 29:39
That’s, I love that part of your series. This doesn’t get talked about a lot, at least not in the stuff that I’ve been looking at, people don’t really talk about predictability, but I think that is so key to, you know, to really be that anchor for the, for your team and provide that stable resource. I think that was a tremendous insight.
Alex Hoffer 30:02
Well I’ve been told before I’m a little predictable so maybe that’s just part of my personality.
Christopher Smith 30:08
So, just don’t play poker with them, you’ll be okay.
Alex Hoffer 30:12
I would be a terrible poker player, okay cuz, you’d be like okay I know what the I know what cards he has, so I’d be the guy you’re cheering everybody on, you know.
Christopher Smith 30:22
Right, right. Well, we’re at that time where we transition to start talking about CRM. Start this off the same way every time, CRM: do you love it, or do you hate it?
Alex Hoffer 30:36
You probably won’t like this answer, I’m somewhere in the middle. And,
Christopher Smith 30:40
Alex Hoffer 30:41
I was thinking about it from the standpoint because my, my favorite sport, I’m a golfer, okay, so love to play golf, I’ve come up in a family that golf is very important and so I play a bunch throughout the summer. My wife would say I play a lot more than I think I play, and she’s probably right because she’s always right. Golf, the golfing world, the analogy I’d give you is technology and golf. So, technology has come a long way from when I played competitively in high school. You know the, you can get I mean, I spend way too much money on my clubs, I don’t do it often, but they can dial everything in almost perfectly now. It’s amazing what they, what they’re doing with technology. And so, as a golfer, it would be foolish of me to ignore technology. But just because I have the technology isn’t going to make me good at playing the game, it’s not going to make me drain 10 footers which is what I lie in my bed dreaming about because that would make the game so much more fun. And, so sales CRM, sort of I view it the same way. It’s like technology in golf. You’re a fool not to invest in it. And that’s what we’re doing in this coming years. We’re looking at how to up our game with a new, new CRM. But it isn’t gonna guarantee results and I’m okay for pushback there. I think it could make certain aspects of the job easier. I’m very encouraged by some of the artificial intelligence that come along with it where you can think about other things, as you know that this CRM is going to be helping you remember certain things and, and for those of us who are not type A like me, that might be helpful. So I don’t know if that analogy helps but you know, so I sort of view it as it’s, it’s, it’s needed technology in both senses, but I still got a, I still got to go out and practice, and I still have to be a practitioner. I still have to, you know, work hard and I know no one’s selling CRM saying, you’re not gonna have to work hard. So.
Christopher Smith 32:53
You know what, but I am gonna surprise you here, I completely agree with you, with what you said. I’m gonna steal your analogy, I’m going to start using that, because it’s spot on. I think one of the biggest mistakes companies make when they’re saying, “Hey we need a CRM,” that they go into it thinking, hey it’s going to solve all our problems, life is going to be so much easier when once we have CRM. You still have to work hard, you still have to have that same level of commitment. CRM is going to help you in a lot of ways, but it’s not going to do the work for you. You know, so those people that have that perception that hey, we can fix our sales problems with CRM, forget it. You’re, you’re gonna, you’re gonna have one of those statistics of the failed CRMs, or maybe not failed, but a mediocre CRM implementation. You know, for me, CRM is a business strategy, it’s a tool like anything else, and you have to use it the right way. It sounds like you have the exactly spot on perspective you need to have when you’re going into this. What was driving your decision to say, “Hey, we need to evolve, we need to look at CRM,” what was behind that?
Alex Hoffer 34:11
I look at some of the tasks that our salespeople do and we, we ask our salespeople to do a lot, so we’re probably not for everybody who’s looking for a sales job out there because we ask our salespeople to manage accounts. There’s a, you know there’s a little aspect of, project managers, we have project managers here, but there’s a little bit of aspect of managing some prospect or projects, I beg your pardon, in their jobs. And just the amount of information with emails and call reports and things of that nature, I want to arm salespeople with a tool that will allow them to communicate in the easiest fashion possible. I mean, I mean I’m putting it in a very basic level, I mean, we have a great ERP system that we’ve implemented in the last five years, you know, so we’ve you know looked at their CRM and played with it a little bit. Now we feel like we need to take the next step between using that and some of the systems that we’ve created internally to kind of funnel funnel it all to one system. And so, you know, so that, that’s part of the encouragement and then also just, you know, I’m always looking at things that how can we automate that, how can we automate that, how can we automate that. We should be asking those questions, because I believe that, I believe the future of work is humanity, and so any, any way that we can get into it, I’m stealing that from I can’t think of the gentleman who said that so I don’t want to be, I don’t want to plagiarize so that credit goes to somebody else who said that, but I agree with it, that we need to be using technology so that we can spend more time with people, addressing their problems and helping them. So I think CRM can help us get to that level.
Christopher Smith 36:01
That’s great. Do you have a definition of success for your CRM implementation?
Alex Hoffer 36:09
That’s a really good question which is a, you know, a great way of me saying that I hadn’t thought about that and I’m gonna think about that now. Off the cuff answer would be, we will know it has succeeded when our sales people spend more time interfacing directly with customers, and less time manually doing things like call reports and, you know, filling out whatever the stuff that it is that salespeople don’t like. Like, I used to be one, didn’t like spending time doing that sort of thing.
Christopher Smith 36:43
Yeah, you bet. From the, do you have any goals for your, your marketing team in terms of how they’re going to interact and interface with CRM?
Alex Hoffer 36:56
That’s another good question. My sister Charlotte is the head of our marketing team and we have sort of, Gretchen, Charlotte, and myself have shared leadership within the company and so she would be more fit to answer that question, but I’m sure it’s again going to help us to, you know, look at how we’re communicating with customers and what messages are getting through. So for example, one thing that comes to mind is you know of course we’re, we’re looking at our metrics and social media, what works what isn’t working, what, what do they find valuable. You know, because there’s just so much information out there, we don’t want to be spamming people, we don’t want to be, you know, being noisy. So that’s a constant, you know, something constantly that we’re working out. And so, I believe a CRM is gonna allow us to pinpoint that more accurately.
Christopher Smith 37:52
Yeah, I don’t want to grill you here, but I’m gonna ask you one more question about your, your thought perspective as a CRO with CRM. You’ve talked a lot about the sales team, but what about the rest of your organization in terms of sales team has now closed the deal, and we are onboarding a new customer for example, are they going to be part of your CRM implementation?
Alex Hoffer 38:17
Yeah, that’s a really good point, I’m glad you went there because another component of the success for CRM is communication. And by that I mean internally, because I want to be able to show the rest of the organization, what’s your, what are we closed on, what are we, what are we doing with customer X, you know what should they be aware of the customer, why, and so that’s something that in whatever CRM we’ve looked at I’ve always been very interested in, because I sort of have, I mean, the way it’s set up is sales is one part of my job. Our Director of Manufacturing also reports to me, Director of Engineering reports to me, so I have, I have a, 50% of my job is looking at the operation side of our business. And so that, the cool thing about that is it’s allowed me to kind of bridge sales and ops together, because they have one person who kind of likes to talk and communicate in charge of both and so, you know, I’m always trying to go back and forth, because it’s like any other manufacturer that’s running 24 hours a day almost seven days a week, it’s hard to get everybody together frequently. And so a lot of times the common denominator is myself and so, you know, I’m in a plant or in a boardroom with our plant managers and telling what the sales team is doing a couple weeks later, we’ve got the sales team talking about the initiatives of the plants and what they’re up to, and you know and kind of going back to that, it’s thinking through this. When we implemented our ERP system, that, we’ve been able to pull all this data to bring to the sales team. Well now I can do the same thing with the sales CRM. It’s going to be awesome.
Christopher Smith 40:03
Oh, yeah. Yeah that’s,
Alex Hoffer 40:07
Yeah, that’s I mean, it’s good, it’s, it’s exciting me just thinking about it. Because we’ve been long overdue for that.
Christopher Smith 40:15
Yeah, I, we always, that’s one of the first questions I ask when we engage with a new client is, you know, “What is your current scope of CRM?” And if it’s limited to the sales team, I always advise them, you’re missing out on a huge opportunity that by extending it through into your operations teams. Think about all the things that have to happen when you sign a new customer, that should all be visible and, and usually managed by CRM. There’s a lot of opportunity to drive ROI ehen you extend CRM beyond the sales team.
Alex Hoffer 40:50
What, can I say one other thing about sales leadership here, and it’s tied to this, because you know kind of going back to the vulnerability piece from a minute ago, I always as a sales leader want to, want to be able to explain to the organization why each customer matters. And so for Hoffer Plastics, very value-led organization. Our core values are family, integrity, service, and trust the power of the narrative, the power of the people on the floor to that customer. So I can think of a Midwestern appliance customer that everybody in the audience would know and just experiences with the people and how our parts, really impact them on the assembly line and help them stay employed and it’s amazing when people start to begin to understand the why behind the what they’re doing, just how passionate they become about what they’re doing. And that’s just another thing that I could see that a sales CRM can help me with, so we’re excited.
Christopher Smith 41:54
Yeah, that’s awesome. Oh yeah it is, it’s a great time for you guys. It’s, it’s, you know, that’s where I get my feeling of energy that I can see you’ve got a lot going on there motivating you, that’s that’s terrific. We are coming up on our time here on Sales Lead Dog. I really appreciate you coming on the show, it’s been great listening to you and talking with you. If people want to reach out and connect with you, possibly learn more about your company, what’s the best way for them to get in touch with you?
Alex Hoffer 42:23
Two ways. Number one, LinkedIn, Alex Hoffer on LinkedIn, you can you can follow me or connect with me. And then number two, my blog baldinbusiness.com, or you can email me at [email protected] That’s just a side thing that I do, I love to write about leadership and personal development, one post a week on Mondays, no more, I’m not gonna spam you or anything like that. And they’re usually two to three minute reads. So those are the best two ways.
Christopher Smith 42:53
And I can vouch, he’s got a terrific blog and one of the things that I like about blogs, when people get personal. You are not afraid to get personal about your life and I think that’s pretty cool.
Alex Hoffer 43:06
Well, like, I’m a full book, whether it’s good or bad is fine, judging, you know, judging, the audience. But yeah, I, you’re gonna get the real deal from me, the good the bad and often the ugly.
Christopher Smith 43:23
Well let’s thank you again for coming on the show, Alex, it’s been great talking with you.
Alex Hoffer 43:26
Well, thank you very much.
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- “You are unfollowable when you are not healthy yourself.” (11:09-11:13)
- “Leadership comes down to a very simple thing: are you someone people want to follow?” (17:48-17:54)