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Welcome to the Sales Lead Dog podcast hosted by CRM technology and sales process expert Christopher Smith.
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Talking with sales leaders that have separated themselves from the rest of the pack.
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Listen to find out how the best of the best achieved success with their team and CRM technology.
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And remember, unless you were the lead dog, the view never changes.
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Welcome to sales lead dog.
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My guest today is Adam Barney of Framework IT.
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Adam is the president of Framework IT.
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So it’s really exciting to have you here, Adam.
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Welcome to Sales lead dog.
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Thanks for having me on, Christopher.
0:40
Adam, tell me a bit about Framework IT.
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We’re a managed IT services provider, which means something to some people and nothing to others.
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So our core business is providing IT support, strategy and cybersecurity to small and mid sized businesses.
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Typically they don’t have those capabilities in house or have limited capabilities in house.
1:02
We have a kind of very unique business model for our industry.
1:06
We have a business optimization process that we apply to all clients that optimize their technology.
1:12
It makes them lean, agile, cost effective, and it drives down the amount of issues they have.
1:17
And we actually incentivize and reward them following this process by reducing their pricing as they do so, which is unique to our industry, but not it is unique in general, right.
1:27
It’s kind of like a safe driver discount almost.
1:29
Yeah, I’d like to.
1:30
And we back it with a guarantee that if you follow our process, you’ll have less issues.
1:35
Actually, that is awesome.
1:36
I’d love that.
1:37
I always like to know, like what makes you different from everyone else that makes you different?
1:44
That’s how we arrived at that model.
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We’re in a crowded field and we were told that it’s hard to differentiate by potential clients.
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And we understood it because there’s varying quality in the actual delivery of these services.
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But how does a client differentiate that upfront?
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And so kind of went soul searching to figure out a way to really stand out from the crowd, offer something unique.
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And you know, we can’t take credit for inventing the concept because it exists in other industries.
2:10
It just wasn’t applied in ours.
2:12
Right, right.
2:13
And I love that it’s, I had, I went through the same process with my company where I was doing a, a session with a group I’m a, a part of and, and the, the facilitators like how many guys offer guarantees?
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And at the time I’m like, well, I guarantee my work, but I wasn’t telling anybody, I guarantee my work.
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And I’m like, how stupid am I?
2:38
You know, like that’s, you know, nobody that, you know, implements CRM or ERP.
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Nobody says, hey, we guarantee our fees and results, even though they probably do.
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So like right away I’m like, oh, we’re making that like the forefront of what we do.
2:55
It’s like we, I’m sure you’re the same way.
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Like we don’t have failure, we only have success.
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That’s a huge differentiator.
3:05
I actually can sympathize.
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We really struggled with the guarantees, too.
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You know, we know we want to help get clients get it right.
3:11
Yeah, We’re confident in our ability to do so.
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But we got really hung up on the idea of making formal, legally binding guarantees, right.
3:19
And it took some kind of creative and pragmatic thinking, I think, to finally overcome that and launch some powerful guarantees.
3:26
But it’s been a very beneficial.
3:28
Oh, it is.
3:28
It’s I don’t, I can’t believe other firms are doing this.
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Like, hey, it’s like you have to be able to stay behind your work.
3:33
I think that’s really cool that you guys are doing that.
3:35
Thank you.
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Awesome.
3:39
When you look back over your career, Adam, you don’t get to be the president of the company without having some success in what you’re doing.
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What are the three things that you think have really driven and LED to your success?
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I would say probably #1 for me personally has been persistence, which is no surprise.
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I kind of came up through a sales background.
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It’s a common term you would apply to successful sales people.
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And, you know, I’ve been told by a lot of clients or potential clients that I was incredibly professionally persistent, I believe was their phrasing, which sounds darn close to, you know, annoying professionally, right?
4:19
So yeah, professionally was the keyword there, right?
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But I mean, I think for the persistence is key.
4:24
You know, of course it’s key in sales, it’s key in business in general.
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It’s key in entrepreneurship because you’re, you’re going to have losses.
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You’re not going to win every deal.
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If you’re starting a business, you know, it’s 2 steps forward, one step back, sometimes 2 steps back, right?
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And you have to be able to just kind of keep picking your head up and pushing forward.
4:44
I’m in the face of all that.
4:45
So yeah, I think persistence is number 1, I think #2 probably is adaptability, you know, not getting stuck in what was hung up on your ego or overly confident in your opinions, right?
4:58
Being open minded to new ideas, new approaches, and be willing to kind of experiment and change and sometimes make big pivots along the way.
5:08
And I think that really requires, you know, adaptability and also adaptability kind of within yourself as an individual, right?
5:17
It could be your selling style, could be your leadership style.
5:20
Those things have to adapt as you grow as an individual, as your company maybe grows, matures and changes, you have to be willing to adapt those things as well.
5:30
You know, and I think the third thing probably for me is letting go of perfectionism.
5:35
You know, we, we, I I’m a first child.
5:39
Yeah.
5:39
I always pursued perfection.
5:42
I, you know, got a lot of a pluses in school, right?
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And you kind of get used to excelling at a high level, but nobody’s perfect.
5:50
It’s reality.
5:50
We can all strive for perfection.
5:53
You know, it’s an admirable goal to a degree, but you also have to accept that you’ll never quite be there, right?
5:59
But, you know, you aim for the stars, you land on the moon kind of thing.
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And, and that’s OK.
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And just be willing to, to, to not dwell on the setbacks, the failures, you know, being OK, that sometimes, hey, the best is good enough.
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It doesn’t have to be perfect.
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We can kind of launched the the minimal viable product, so to speak, and keep iterating and improving.
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You know, it at times that’s perfectly acceptable.
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But certain personality types, and, you know, I’m probably in this group struggle with that, right, until they really adapt and get used to maybe letting go of that perfectionism.
6:34
Yeah, yeah, people, I think it’s tough for people to understand.
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And I know it was for me personally, I can totally relate.
6:40
What you’re saying is understanding that I don’t need to be perfect, I just need to be the best.
6:46
And often times perfection is the enemy of performance because it can really bog you down.
6:52
You’re getting stuck in this, this loop that is stuck at the 90, you know, at the 1 yard line, right?
7:00
99% of the way there.
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But you’re so hung up on getting it perfect.
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You never cross that threshold and, and score, so to speak, right.
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So it’s, yeah, it can get in the way.
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It’s a double edged sword is maybe the way I put it, it can drive you to be the best, but it can be an inhibitor if you’re too dogmatic about it.
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Right, right.
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What did you originally want to be when you were thinking about a career just getting started?
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What was your vision at that time?
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You know, teenage Adam up until first year of college, I was going to be a doctor.
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No, no kidding.
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I actually, I actually enrolled in pre Med and you know, got through the first year of coursework, got into some, I think it was organic chemistry, to be honest.
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I always love science.
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So this is surprising chemistry right now.
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I get into organic chemistry and I realize I don’t really enjoy this.
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I’m not passionate about this.
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And I, you know, I think I started to get a more crystal clear idea of kind of what that that life, you know, probably is going to look like even post college.
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And I realized I had a lot more interest and passion for for business ultimately.
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And so I made that decision and switched to Business School at that point with a, you know, a kind of a major in finance.
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And I think I really at that point envision going into finance in some fashion.
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You know, it’s probably corporate finance was kind of what I had in my mind, you know, and Fast forward a sophomore year, I get a, it’s an unpaid internship in the securities and compliance department at a local Northwestern Mutual office.
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Really was a resume builder for me, right?
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The compliance back end part of that business wasn’t something of particular interest, but I needed something in the field to put on the resume.
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And after doing that for a little while, they said, why don’t you try the, the financial Rep role might be a better fit for kind of your personality, etcetera, has a little more kind of upside trajectory from a career and ambition standpoint.
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So I interned there for a while and that was that was my first taste of professional sales, let’s say.
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And was that an easy first taste?
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Was it a good first taste or sour first taste?
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I think it’s a a difficult field.
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Have a lot of respect those people that persist and succeed in that field because the kind of burnout rate is very high, the success rates very low.
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It’s a challenging field.
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It was AI think a great learning experience, an excellent place to kind of cut my teeth, learned a lot.
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You know, it was nice being at Northwestern Mutual.
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It was just a very old organization with a very proven track record around this.
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So, you know, it was just a really, really strong learning experience.
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I it was hard.
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I had a lot of success with it actually, you know, a lot of awards for top performing intern kind of thing.
9:50
Actually continued it throughout college and started there my first year of college before kind of stumbling in the opportunity with framework IT.
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Yeah.
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So let’s talk about that transition going from there to where you are now.
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That’s doesn’t seem like a super linear move, right?
10:12
It is an odd background in our industry.
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Most of the executive leadership and most of the ownership came up through the tech world.
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They were often engineers that started helping people on the side while they’re at a full time job.
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And then they realized, Hey, I this is a low barrier to entry type of thing.
10:31
I can go do this on my own, right?
10:33
And and then they enter this whole new world where they’re trying to grow a business and you know, that’s a whole different skill set.
10:39
So I came from a very different background.
10:41
And you’re right, it’s a very odd leap.
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Now, you know, I first year out of college, I was doing the financial advising.
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I reached out to a gentleman I knew from college, couple years older than me.
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We were in the same fraternity.
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We were, I wouldn’t say like close friends in college, more acquaintances, but you know, in that field you maximize your network.
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So I reached out to him and started talking to him and a financial advisor capacity.
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He actually also has an accounting background and was working in merger and acquisition consulting at the time.
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And he was starting this business with another gentleman who did work in tech who felt like his firm was missing a lot of opportunities, etcetera.
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But he didn’t have the business like chops background, didn’t feel comfortable doing it on his own.
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So my business partner John, who, you know, again, the accountant and merger and acquisition consultant said, I’ll help you start this thing.
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I’ll help you with the finances, the legal, the back end of the business, but I’m going to keep doing what I’m doing in the consulting field, but I’ll just help you with this to kind of get you off the ground, etcetera.
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So you know, they actually started the company that is 2 gentlemen in 2008, which is when I was graduating college.
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Fast forward a little bit, John gets injured actually running with his dog and he can’t travel anymore for his consulting job and he’s on short term disability leave.
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He’s far too, you know, ADD to sit around, do nothing.
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So he starts working on framework full time while he’s laid up on the couch at home and realized that he doesn’t want to go back to merger and acquisition consulting, that he sees a future in the technology services space and he’s passionate and excited about it and wants to grow this business.
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So he starts looking for a little bit of startup capital.
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Nothing major, just enough to get an office, hire some employees, you know, really get a team, small team together going at this full time.
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He was really close to taking money from some of the partners at the M and a firm he worked with.
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And these would have been phenomenal people to give you advice and guidance, but they weren’t going to put any sweat into the business.
12:35
They weren’t going to fulfill skill caps within the business, of course.
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And in talking to me, I think he kind of maybe realized or had this epiphany that, hey, I don’t feel like I’m the best person to lead sales for the company.
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Sales is going to be a skill gap.
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And he flooded the idea, you know, by me of, hey, would you have interest in joining as a partner, investing some money, coming and working here and kind of leading the sales marketing effort?
12:59
You know, I in spite of being very passionate about finance, personal finance and having just a lot of like genuine interest in the topic, there were some things I didn’t love about the financial advising field that we won’t get into today.
13:11
And I, you know, I really always had an entrepreneurial streak and bug a lot of little small side businesses along the way growing up, right?
13:19
So the idea of kind of really building a true business was attractive.
13:23
The idea of selling business to business was also really attractive to me.
13:28
I didn’t love going to people’s homes around dinner time and to talk about their finances with dogs jumping up on me and stuff like that.
13:36
And so I love that idea.
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And then technology services just seemed like the perfect place to kind of express that and had a lot of confidence, you know, in in John, you know, in his business acumen, his background and his intelligence, etcetera.
13:51
So I was excited about the opportunity.
13:53
There was probably six months of we’ll call it dating type of conversations, but I pulled the trigger in April of 2010.
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We signed a new operating agreement, came on as a partner, started working full time at the organization and focused on the the revenue growth side initially.
14:09
That’s awesome.
14:11
I know as a, you know, I’ve been an entrepreneur in my whole career and I’ve bootstrapped all my businesses.
14:19
And when you do that, you’re wearing all the hats, you’re doing everything chief cook and bottle washer, right?
14:26
And then you’re growing, you’re building a team out.
14:30
What was that transition like for you or what was the hardest part of that transition for you?
14:35
As you’re growing, you’re getting success, but things change when that happens.
14:41
What was the hardest part for you as you guys experienced that success and growth?
14:46
Yeah, we, you know, 2010 to 2013 we grew really fast and in 2014 we made the Ink 500 list for the fastest growing private companies in America.
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We started out growing a lot of things, processes, our systems and some of our people, and it became kind of apparent, you know, that things were going to get messy if we just kind of kept this growth pace and didn’t really rebuild and re establish a foundation.
15:13
And you know, one of the challenges in doing so was starting to kind of like replace yourself in certain functions, right?
15:20
Because really lean team owner LED sales, you know, my hands were knee deep in everything.
15:29
And so, you know, had to bring in somebody else and get them up to speed to be able to sell, you know, semi autonomous, autonomously at 1st and eventually autonomously to allow me to actually shift.
15:42
I, I ended up shifting into the COO role, I believe in 2015 and had to refocus on rebuilding systems, building or rebuilding processes, right.
15:53
In some cases the processes were were here and not anywhere formal.
15:58
So, you know, I think the two challenges that that kind of really illustrates is bringing in training and retaining the right kind of talent, particularly at those higher level leadership roles.
16:11
Those are key roles.
16:12
And you know, again, perfection, it’s not a real thing, but you want to get it right because getting those roles wrong can be kind of a real set back or delay in the trajectory you’re on.
16:23
And I think the kind of second thing that kind of came into play then is also learning to delegate or and let go of things.
16:31
I was so used, you know, to to doing the selling, being in the meeting, answering every question, right?
16:39
And, and you can’t keep doing that.
16:41
You know, as you grow and you bring in these other leaders, it would stifle their development.
16:46
It would turn them off, you know, that kind of micromanagement.
16:49
And ultimately it’s not to the benefit of the business because then you’re not able to go focus your attention to other things that need to be fixed and improved.
16:56
And so for me, I would say that was just like a big internal struggle and growth moment of, you know, learning to empower them and then step back and trust them and, and kind of just be there to help support them, help them clear roadblocks, help them get the resources they need, but to not intervene and not sit there looking over their shoulder.
17:18
And so I, I think that was like a, a pivotal moment.
17:21
You know, it’s, it’s something that’s learned over time.
17:23
I’ve had to grow in that regard still and, and probably still am to this day, right.
17:29
As we continue to grow, have more talented leadership, kind of more layers of leadership.
17:34
It’s an evolving thing and it’s a journey.
17:36
But I think that was my first taste of it and it and it was, you know, a big challenge at first.
17:41
What were some of the concrete steps you took when you realized, hey, this is a problem, I’m a bottleneck, I need to change.
17:48
What were some of the concrete things you did to initiate that change and, and not, you know, to make sure was something that was permanent and that you would continue doing?
17:59
You know, getting more formal about documenting roles, responsibilities, delineation, you know, in those regards, kind of when approval or escalation is needed versus not needed.
18:13
I think that, you know, it’s a really kind of tangible first step.
18:16
The second step is more of a soft touch kind of step, but it’s you know, when people are bringing things to you, do they necessarily or into your input or attention?
18:26
You know, due to whatever their their uncertainty, etcetera, is to not just leap in, provide the answer or provide the fix to actually learn to step back, let them voice the problem and then take them through a conversation that of asking them questions, essentially letting them make the decision, right.
18:47
But but leading the conversation through questions, asking them, you know, if they’re up to them, what they would do, how they would solve it and and coaching is necessary.
18:56
Rather than saying, here’s the answer, just go do that because no one learns in that process.
19:01
They don’t they don’t get any understanding of what was the thought process behind that?
19:06
Why was that the answer?
19:08
Right?
19:08
So it’s, it’s just like a different way to kind of approach those conversations and embed like little coaching moments into day-to-day business.
19:17
And in doing so, you’re building their confidence and you’re empowering them and making them feel confident the next time something maybe similar or slightly different arises to say, I don’t think I need to bring this to them, not, you know, not now at least.
19:31
I feel confident now in kind of thinking this through from different angles and making a independent decision.
19:37
Yeah, I know.
19:38
I’ve been consulting my whole career and I’m very, very confident as an individual in myself, my abilities, whatever.
19:48
And so early on in my career, people come to me in that stuff and right away be like, I’m totally willing to make those decisions.
19:54
And then I realized, like all those things you’ve been saying, like I was not helping anybody.
19:58
I was becoming a bottleneck.
20:02
I realized that I had to make myself vulnerable and tell people, hey, look, I when it comes right down to it, I don’t know any more than you do.
20:11
I’m just totally willing to make a decision and risk falling on my face.
20:15
That’s the only difference between you and me.
20:19
I’m willing to let’s make a decision.
20:20
Let’s try it and see if it works.
20:23
Was that was it similar for you or was it different in some way?
20:27
Yeah, right.
20:28
Like the, the entrepreneur mindset, we’re usually comfortable with making rapid decisions.
20:33
It’s somewhat of a necessity, right?
20:35
We couldn’t get round down into analysis paralysis and every decision or we get nowhere, we go out of business.
20:40
And so you’re very, you get very comfortable with it or you already were very comfortable with it, right?
20:44
That’s how you ended up becoming an entrepreneur.
20:47
But you got to build that up, you know, in other people.
20:49
And you know, I’ve always and most people that really appreciates the opportunity cost of time and time is money, right?
20:56
And so it’s just like so tempting to just jump in.
20:59
Here’s the answer.
21:00
You know, I just saved 10 minutes of conversation, but again, it’s just a huge disservice to you miss a growth moment, coaching moment, a development moment for those folks when you do that.
21:10
And so it’s like it really had to learn to be the last person that talks or when I talk to start with questions and not answers and only to start interceding with answers.
21:21
If we’re kind of after a while we got getting anywhere, so to speak, when in circles, but that that really requires some like restraint and and adjustment of habits when you might be very inclined to offer that quick decision, that quick answer naturally.
21:39
So that was, you know, another kind of big personal growth I think thing that I’ve witnessed in myself in the last 10 years.
21:46
Is it was it hard for you to let people risk failing at all?
21:52
Was there any component of that in your behavior?
21:56
Yeah, I’m sure there was.
21:58
I think it’s reduced over time.
22:01
I think, you know, if I reflect, I think earlier in the businesses growth, you know, we’re bootstrapped and I don’t know if it’s true or not right, but it felt like some wrong steps could mean missing a payroll, going out of business, failure ultimately.
22:17
And so I’m sure I was way less apartment to completely let go, put that faith in, be willing to let them fail and to pick up and correct it.
22:26
And I think as we’ve grown and matured as an organization, gain more experience with those types of situations and then just objectively of most of the decisions we’re making now, right, probably are not betting the company.
22:40
So it’s much easier to to let it go, right.
22:43
And you know, now we, you have an awesome team of very talented people around you.
22:47
So now I’m very comfortable with letting it go because I have such confidence in them.
22:53
But again, it was a journey to get there.
22:56
What role did vulnerability play in your growth?
23:02
You know, I think when I think back, I think, you know, all the founders of the company initially were in their early 20s.
23:09
And you might imagine a bunch of ambitious early 20s people have a lot of hubris, right, over confidence, a lot of optimism.
23:17
Hope you don’t even.
23:18
We’ll call it.
23:19
And it’s great in a way, you know, it fuels you to push through tough moments, keep your head up, right, That optimism is really key.
23:28
But but I, you know, I think learned as I’ve matured as an individual and we’ve matured as a company is, you know, vulnerability can be a key asset too, to garner stronger relationships with employees, certainly, but even clients, you know, it’s OK to be humble and admit you’re not perfect.
23:45
You don’t get every decision right.
23:48
You know, I’ve familiar with the book like extreme ownership, but really come to appreciate the concept of as a, yeah, as a leader, just owning up to mistakes.
24:00
Whether you made it directly or not, if your reports made it right, at the end of the day, there was a problem with your leadership, your direction, your communication or something that you ultimately are responsible for and should take ownership of.
24:12
And when you when you do that, you kind of implement that mindset and express that to your team, you gain respect and appreciation.
24:20
So vulnerability isn’t a weakness, it’s a sign of strength and maturity when you’re, you’re OK with showing it, especially when it comes to owning missteps and mistakes.
24:31
Oh yeah, totally.
24:32
It’s, and I think clients appreciate that.
24:35
To me, it’s a, a level of, of it’s it, it, it has to exist to truly become a partner and trusted advisor.
24:45
I don’t think you can ever get to that place without an element of vulnerability because everybody makes mistakes.
24:54
And to pretend otherwise, you’re just you’re fooling yourself.
24:59
Business partner John coined a little tagline internally, I don’t know if you got this from somewhere else going back 10 years ago said we won’t always get it right, but we’ll make it right.
25:09
And I just love that.
25:11
I just love that.
25:11
So simple.
25:13
The idea is it’s like, you know, it’s like, hey, I’m not, you know, when we do CRM, I tell, I tell people like, look, we don’t fail.
25:22
So that means we’re pulling all nighters because hey, we missed something right before go live, whatever.
25:27
And we have to get a right for go live.
25:29
That’s what we’re going to do because that’s just the world we’re in.
25:33
And you’re betting your business on working with us to a large degree.
25:38
And so we have to deliver for you.
25:40
There’s no other option.
25:43
And so, yeah, it’s like, hey, if we if we uncover something like, hey, we missed this, we’re going to fix it.
25:49
Yeah, that’s, I touched on a guarantee we offer earlier about reducing IT issues.
25:54
One of our other guarantees is we’ll make it right.
25:57
If we fall short, we’ll make it right.
25:59
Yeah, that’s it.
26:01
And it’s like, yeah, it’s like, I trust me.
26:05
It’s like I when I first started, I did all my deals on handshakes because I hated contracts.
26:11
And when I started my current business, because I just hated all the contracts and having lawyers involved and I got lawyers.
26:18
I hate that.
26:19
So all early on, you know, I was getting deals through my my network, people I knew we trusted each other.
26:26
I never had any contracts at all because I’m like, guys, there’s a problem.
26:30
I’m going to take care of it, you know, and it’d be great if we could all operate that way.
26:33
It’s just not realistic anymore, you know.
26:35
But to me, that should be the attitude.
26:39
Absolutely.
26:40
If you’re in a, especially a services business, it’s not unique to services, but especially in B to B services.
26:46
I think that’s that’s critical if you want to be viewed as a partner and not a vendor.
26:51
Yeah, Yeah, you have to.
26:55
You mentioned your network, working your network early on.
26:59
What are you doing today to build a network?
27:02
Because that’s such a huge part of selling is building that network, cultivating it, it, it can never stop in my opinion.
27:10
What do you do to grow your network?
27:13
We’re members of various kind of networking focus groups, try to obviously pursue kind of organic networking outside of that and that can be very kind of open-ended.
27:27
What I mean by that is, you know, you network with your vendors, with your clients, with a random person that you know, acquaintance, friend, whatever.
27:36
There doesn’t have to be any kind of limitations to that.
27:39
There doesn’t have to be any direct relationship to how it might generate business.
27:43
Just go out, meet good people, get to understand them, get to understand what they do, what their who their ideal clients look like, who are good centers of influence for them to meet and pay forward kind of go giver, you know, style and you don’t know what will come of it.
28:00
And it often is a very kind of intricate web of how networking evolves and kind of spirals out where out, you know, further and further out.
28:09
And then suddenly two years later you’re landing some clients and if you look back at the trail you got there, it’s kind of wild at times the various relationships and introductions and things can even end up full circle kind of coming back around to somebody from your past.
28:25
And so, yeah, it’s certainly, I think, you know, especially in the small, even mid sized business realm, like networking is one of your best sources, right?
28:34
I mean, that’s scale you entirely to, to meet your goals or ambitions, right?
28:38
Other, other marketing and sales channels, oil wells, so to speak, have to be opened up, but it is often one of the lowest cost, highest win rate.
28:46
I mean, you, you don’t want to lose that Ave.
28:49
networking and referrals are fantastic to get business if if it’s done well.
28:55
Is there a component of networking that you just felt like this?
28:59
I’ve really put my heart and effort into this.
29:01
It just wasn’t worth it.
29:03
Was there any type of networking that you did that you found to be.
29:06
Yeah, you know, kind of just like going to the.
29:10
And I think this is specific to my business.
29:12
I should be clear because I think this kind of networking probably worked very, very well.
29:15
What I did was something slightly different.
29:17
But, you know, early on I’d go to a lot of like the local Chamber of Commerce meetings.
29:22
And what I came to finally appreciate was that the people at the Chamber of Commerce meetings were often times, you know, half sales or pseudo salespeople.
29:31
Yeah, but the the target audience that I sell to is the C level leaders of the small business, small mid sized businesses which you know they are sometimes there, but there’s much smaller demographic let’s say in that type of setting.
29:44
Now again, this is where what you do is relevant because I was like an insurance agent or mortgage broker or whatever.
29:52
Almost everybody there is potential prospects.
29:55
I don’t want to bash Chambers, right.
29:56
I just think for the the business.
29:59
So I think that it’s, you know, we are thinking about especially groups and event type based networking, you, you got to look at it like any other kind of marketing activity of, well, who’s my target client profile?
30:11
What stakeholders do I sell to?
30:14
And you know, how do I find them where they are, right?
30:17
And those things that you should align and and I did not appreciate, you know, I was a spray and pray approach to networking early on.
30:24
And I started realizing some of this just wasn’t worth the time and effort.
30:27
Yeah, that’s why I asked the question is because I’ve you, you know, early on especially, you’re throwing mud at the wall to see what’s going to stick.
30:32
And one thing I’ve learned over time is because I think I’ve tried just about everyone, you know, at least everything that I’ve seen, if I was paying to belong like to these networking groups, those almost always were a waste of time for me, that it was just a bunch of other people like me trying to do the same thing.
30:53
So you got a bunch of sales people trying to sell to sales people and none of nobody’s a decision maker, you know, and, and so it, I, I learned that same lesson.
31:02
It’s like I have to find the groups that where my customers, the people I’m selling to, where do they belong?
31:07
What groups are they belong to?
31:09
That’s where I need to be.
31:11
And so I think that’s an important lesson for anybody is, you know, just the general rule of marketing, you need to meet your customers, your prospects where they live, not where you live.
31:20
I think one other thing I’ve learned about networking is not to focus on the on getting to the immediate prospect.
31:26
Actually, it’s to look to get in front of the right centers of influence that no stakeholders that the correct stakeholder for your sale at your target kind of client, because one powerful COI relationship can yield how many, you know, clients over a decade plus of relationship versus going and finding each new client kind of one at a time.
31:50
And it also kind of takes the the pressure off of not feeling like you need to come out with a client opportunity networking, but rather just need to build relationships with, you know, again, the center of influence.
32:01
And those are often really great, dynamic, interesting people.
32:04
So it’s just like rewarding anyway to establish a relationship with them.
32:09
And, you know, it can take time for that to yield results, but I just think that has like a more multiplier effect that you don’t get if your mindset is look directly for that prospect and and only that, right, you kind of dismiss everything else.
32:23
I think you’re doing yourself a disservice.
32:25
And maybe, you know, it’s like a short sighted approach.
32:28
Yeah, I agree with that.
32:29
CRM.
32:30
Do you love it or do you hate it?
32:33
I love it.
32:33
I what do you love?
32:36
Actually, it’s funny, when I started at, you know, sales in Northwestern, they used the cards in the shoe box and a little finding system and it was like the paper version of CRM.
32:48
They did implement CRM while I was still there.
32:50
And ever since then, I viewed CRM as an absolute necessity to do sales well, professionally.
32:57
You need it, you know, to, to track your activity, your priorities, your opportunities, to track your data, to understand your numbers, to manage your time well.
33:06
I mean, on and on.
33:07
I I just could not imagine doing this without ACRM.
33:12
You know, maybe if I was a sole proprietor and I was just organized in my calendar in a notepad.
33:18
I had no ambitions to grow or scale.
33:20
Sure.
33:21
Do I need ACRM at that point?
33:22
No.
33:23
But if you have any ambitions to scale, if you want to have a sales team, you want to maximize kind of that opportunity to grow your business, I I think you have to have one.
33:33
Yeah.
33:34
One of the questions I ask a a prospect when we first start talking to them as I want to know what are their strategic goals?
33:41
You know, what are their three or five year plans, key initiatives?
33:45
And then I want to know, does your CRM align to and support those key initiatives, you know, actually driving to those outcomes that you’re trying to achieve, the CRMS you’ve worked with over the past, has that been the case for you or do you think there’s a fundamental disconnect with how people are using CRM towards driving key initiatives?
34:10
I think you can, you know, you can stand up the CRM and it can kind of be the digital version of the shoebox I just mentioned, right?
34:17
That is the most basic and hey, that’s better than the shoebox, but that again, it’s not going to maximize the opportunity.
34:25
To really maximize the opportunity, what you have to do is what you said, it has to be aligned to your goals, to your marketing and sales campaigns and initiatives.
34:34
It takes a lot of fine tuning and effort.
34:38
And if you neglect it, you’re just not going to get as great of results and you’re going to get a a lower return on investment.
34:45
And I’ll admit this is a mistake we’ve made.
34:47
You know, we in our earliest instances of CRMS, we used it in a basic way.
34:54
We weren’t always great at aligning the structure and the data, right, in a, in a way to best support making meaningful data-driven kind of decisions.
35:07
You know, we were inefficient in kind of the automation or workflow within it.
35:11
And over time it just keeps getting hammered home.
35:17
Oh, for me personally, right that that is throwing away opportunity that if you are really diligent and you set it up really well and you continue to adjust it as your business evolves and you really stay on top of it and you keep it clean and aligned.
35:31
There’s so much value in the data, the streamlining and efficiency that that drives that like I, I will never make that mistake again.
35:41
I guess it’s my point, you know, it’s like we’re in ACRM transition right now.
35:47
I think I’ve done four or five at framework and I’m, you know, I’m, I’m approaching this one with way more diligence and discipline, you know, by like a factor of 4 than I ever had before.
35:59
Because this lesson has been so hammered home to me that I’m like building this right from the scratch this time.
36:06
But again, it’s, it’s not a set it forget it thing.
36:08
It is a living breathing system, just like the business.
36:11
And it it does take constant evolution.
36:13
Yeah, I appreciate your insight, Adam.
36:16
We’re at our time here in sales lead talk.
36:17
This time always goes by so stinking fast.
36:20
I’d love to keep talking with you, but we have to end it like everything else, right?
36:26
If people want to reach out to connect with you, Adam, if they want to learn more about Framework IT, maybe what’s the best way for them to do that?
36:33
My LinkedIn, You know, I’m pretty active on LinkedIn.
36:36
I checked the messages regularly.
36:38
So you can find me at Adam Barney with Framework IT on [email protected].
36:47
I’ll directly, you know, see that e-mail as well and always love meeting great people.
36:51
That’s awesome.
36:52
So if you can catch that, no worries.
36:54
You can get it in our show notes at impellercrm.com/sales Lead Dog, where you’ll find not only this episode, but all the 100 plus episodes of sales lead Dog.
37:03
So be sure to check that out.
37:05
Subscribe so you get all our future episodes and you can get these show notes as well.
37:10
Adam, thank you again for coming on Sales Lead Dog and welcome to the Sales Lead Dog pack.
37:16
Thanks for having me on, Christopher.
37:20
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37:27
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37:30
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37:40
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